Soul sleep texts in the Bible

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, May 6, 2013.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    There is no question but that the Bible speaks to the subject of the nature of mankind - whether we are in fact immortal or not and our state of knowing or not knowing in death.

    Paul speaks about the "dead in Christ" in 1Thess 4 and gives us some idea of what that state is - so also does Christ in Matt 22.

    wikipedia notes -

    Some, following Calvin,[60] believe in the immortality of the soul and conscious existence after death, while others, following Luther,[61] believe in the mortality of the soul and unconscious "sleep" until the resurrection of the dead.[62]

    Those who agree with Luther's POV have noticed that the soul dies according to the Bible.

    [FONT=&quot]Soul can die[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Matt 10:28 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“both body AND soul” destroyed in fiery hell[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Ezek 18:4 “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Soul that sins shall die”[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Ps 22:29 NASB” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
    All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
    Even he who [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]cannot keep his soul alive[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Morey suggests that John Wycliffe (1320–1384) and Tyndale taught the doctrine of soul sleep "as the answer to the Catholic teachings of purgatory and masses for the dead."[89][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Many Anabaptists in this period, such as Michael Sattler (1490–1527),[90][91] were Christian mortalists.[92][/FONT]
    (Believed in Soul Sleep)

    So what is the real deal "sola scriptura"?

    What does "The Bible say"??

    What did Jesus say on this subject when confronted with the death of one of his closest friends?

    Is there interest in such a thing?

    I for one - am interested.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #1 BobRyan, May 6, 2013
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  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    In John 11 Jesus says this about his "friend Lazarus".

    11 This He said, and after that He *said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep.”

    Jesus says of the person - Lazarus "our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep".

    Notice that Jesus did not say "I friend Lazarus has a body that has fallen asleep - I go that I may wake IT".

    The reason is because the Bible teaching on the condition of the body in death - is not sleep it is the body "returns to dust". Eccl 12:7. As God said in Genesis 3:19
    "For you are dust,
    And to dust you shall return.”


    But the soul of man returns to God who gave it. Eccl 12:7. It is that which either sleeps or is conscious - one or the other.

    John 11
    12 The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.”
    13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.
    14 So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe; but let us go to him.”
    16 Therefore Thomas, who is called Didymus, said to his fellow disciples, “Let us also go, so that we may die with Him.” 17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles off; 19 and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary, to console them concerning their brother. 20 Martha therefore, when she heard that Jesus was coming, went to meet Him, but Mary stayed at the house. 21 Martha then said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

    23 Jesus *said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
    24 Martha *said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.
    25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

    The teaching of Jesus is clear - that his followers could look forward to the day of resurrection - for their hope when it comes to the dead.

    And since "Jesus IS the resurrection" even in the case where the believer dies - they "WILL live" for as Jesus said "your brother will RISE again".

    Paul also points the believers forward to the resurrection as their source of hope when it comes to "The Dead in Christ".

    1Thess 4
    13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

    (God brings with him - those who have fallen asleep. The dormant soul is with Christ and is brought with Him at the 2nd coming to be united with a resurrected glorified body).

    15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

    16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

    The Dead in Christ "rise first" according to Paul. And John says this happens at the "First Resurrection" in Rev 20:4-5. Which takes place at the Rev 19-20 event - called the second coming.

    1Thess 4
    17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

    The comfort that Paul gives to the NT saint whose friends have "fallen asleep" and are the "dead in Christ" - is to look forward to the resurrection of the dead - where the "dead in Christ rise first".



    The soul is not dead in soul sleep - it is merely dormant.

    Thus Jesus can say "Our friend Lazarus sleeps".

    And he can also say that in the ultimate sense the believer never dies - their soul continues on in a dormant state of sleep.

    John 11
    26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #2 BobRyan, May 6, 2013
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    hebews says to us that we hve a cloud of witness, that also there in the souls of them slain in heaven talking to God, so NO soul sleep!


    MUST define the term death, for there is physical and spiritual death mentioned in the bible, so that one who physically dies, his spirit,soul lives on, and goes to be with either God in heaven , or to the place of Hell...

    there is the sennd death mentioned, judgement of sinners, NOT ceasing to existing, but facting eternal spiritual death, forever seperated from God and living on!
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    In Matt 27 there is a number of the "Dead in Christ" that are raised - these are taken to heaven with Christ at his resurrection.

    In Hebrews - there is nothing about dead people talking to God that I know of.

    In Matt 22 Christ argues from the "God is not the God of the dead" so familiar and acceptable to the Sadducees and Christ said that the proof of the future resurrection is found in the fact that this is the only way God can claim to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob after they have all died.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Some have argued that "the body sleeps in the dust" instead of "the body returns to dust" and the soul sleeps.

    But that is a problem not only for the Genesis 3 and Eccl 12 statements about the body returning to dust instead of merely sleeping -- it is also a problem for 1Thess 4

    1Thess 4
    13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

    Is Jesus bringing back with him the souls that are in the dormant state of sleep - or is he bringing back dust - bodies sleeping as dust?

    I think it makes more sense to see that the text is talking about "those who have fallen asleep" as the soul in a dormant state rather then a corpse decaying to dust coming back with Jesus at the 2nd coming.

    And of course - a dormant soul would mean that praying to the dead is not a valid practice - as "the dead know not anything".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     

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