Southern & American Baptist & Matt. 18

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by MrJim, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. MrJim

    MrJim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2007
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Odd thing happened recently. Some months ago in a bible study at chuch (ABC) we were going through Matthew 18 studying this parable:

    Mt 18:22 –Mt 18:35 NKJV
    Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
    Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
    “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’
    So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
    “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”


    Thing was, the pastor focused the study upon forgiveness and passed over the bolded section above. When I asked who the torturers were I didn't get much of an answer.

    Fast Forward: This past Wednesday night I was at the Southern Baptist church (family goes there on Wednesday nights~great bunch of folks) and the pastor used the same passage. I thought "This fellow won't dodge those last few verses". Well, he did. After reading the text he didn't even bother to attempt any exegesis of the last few verses.

    Does anyone want to contribute what they've been taught regarding the nature of who and what the torturers are about? The local baptist clergy seems to want no part of it.
    :godisgood:
     
  2. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    Perhaps Jesus was being hyperbolic.
     
  3. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,629
    Likes Received:
    45
    A collections agency?
     
  4. MrJim

    MrJim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2007
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Generally parables are pretty clear~maybe not so much with this one..
     
  5. Zenas

    Zenas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    Southern Baptists are doing their January Bible Study on the parables of Matthew. This is one of them. Our pastor dodged this question as well when he taught it last week. The study guide doesn't mention it either. However, it does say:
    Doing the math a little further, we see it would take the slave working six days a week more than 191,000 years to repay what he owed. This might as well be all eternity. No one has said so, but in my opinion the debtor's prison is hell and the torturers are the devil and his minions. It just makes sense, doesn't it?
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,338
    Likes Received:
    786

    Most likely it is referring to judges.
     
  7. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,636
    Likes Received:
    158
    Torturers ... translated as:

    In the:
    NIV ................... jailers to be tortured
    KJV ................... tormentors
    NKJV ................. torturers
    NASV ................ torturers
    YLT .................. inquisitors

    I believe it is pretty obvious he was turned over to the jailers. This was a common practice and did not end all that long ago. In fact the practice continued until the early 19th century. It seems self defeating. How can a person pay off their debt if they are thrown in jail. On the other hand John Bunyan wrote Pilgrim's Progress while in jail.



     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,338
    Likes Received:
    786
    The Ethiopic version uses "to them that judge"
     
  9. MrJim

    MrJim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2007
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    So the parable is saying something that's mostly just a cultural thing, that if we still had debtor prisons then then those not forgiving their brothers will be sent to debtor's prison?
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,338
    Likes Received:
    786
    The worldly consequence is inconsequential to the bigger picture
     
  11. John Toppass

    John Toppass
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    7
    I would think Matthew 7:1&2 may help.

    Matt 7:1-2 (NKJV)1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.
    2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

    There are others but these seem to answer your question.
     
  12. MrJim

    MrJim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2007
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    The bigger picture seems to indicate there are serious consequences for our actions as forgiven children of the King.
     
  13. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Mt. 6:14, 15, "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions."
     

Share This Page

Loading...