1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Southern Baptists, Immigration, and doing the right thing

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Ruiz, Jun 17, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 2 of 7
  1. mandym

    mandym New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is not a red herring. I could care less if they all come. But we need to know who they are and if they come illegally regardless of the reason for holding them back then they need to go home and come back in a recognized and legal matter. But you cannot excuse illegals and say that we should protect from those who would hurt us. Mexico is helping them to get in. It all has to be stopped and gotten under control.

    Comparing illegal immigration to abortion is like comparing homosexuality to racism. It is just a wrong headed and over the top attempt at getting sympathy on the issue.
     
    #21 mandym, Jun 17, 2011
  2. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do not think anyone is suffering. In fact, when studying economics for my MBA, I saw we need immigrants because our population was not increasing enough to sustain our current economic dominance.

    As well, it is not the poor who are robbing jobs from Americans. It is the rich who we put a higher net worth on.
     
    #22 Ruiz, Jun 17, 2011
  3. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Man,

    Another red herring. Thanks for your input.
     
    #23 Ruiz, Jun 17, 2011
  4. mandym

    mandym New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    To use a old Hebrew expression.....baloney. You need to obtain your info from people who are out there earning a living and not rely so much on professors who are removed from the real world. Americans in the work force will disagree with you. They are also driving the wage down to the pits.
     
    #24 mandym, Jun 17, 2011
  5. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Two points. First, I am talking from both experience and research. I want to remind you that I am hispanic. My mother came here and their family was extremely poor. My family did jobs in America that most Americans would not do just to eat.

    Secondly, the issue is about this law being immoral. The law makes a permanent underclass and judges people by what we perceive as their net worth, not their human worth as seen by God. This is the same argument we use against abortion, and it applies to this situation.
     
    #25 Ruiz, Jun 17, 2011
  6. mandym

    mandym New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't care if your Hispanic or not. I can tell you I have seen first hand Americans being fired from good construction jobs and replaced with illegals who will accept lower wages. It is a fact.

    If you come to this country you need to be able to contribute and not be a burden. You can twist that however you want to but the red herring is yours. And your abortion comparison is over the top and unnecessary.
     
    #26 mandym, Jun 17, 2011
  7. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you believe in means testing people who come into our country? You believe in weighing people by their worth to our country?

    I do not think I am making an over the top statement. Simply speaking, our law discriminates against people. Just calling it "over the top" is not an argument.

    I am sorry you lost your job due to someone who would work for less. This would happen, though, no matter if we had immigrants or not. Only when there is a severe workforce shortage would this not happen, and if there is a workforce shortage there are bigger problems as sticky wages become a problem.
     
    #27 Ruiz, Jun 17, 2011
  8. mandym

    mandym New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, I believe they need to be a benefit not a burden otherwise they can stay home. There is no commandment to let them in.

    I did not "just" i explained it.

    You do not know what your talking about.
     
    #28 mandym, Jun 17, 2011
  9. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,378
    Likes Received:
    1
    I never advocated for zero immigration. Furthermore, why does our population need to increase? The U.S. fertility rate is at the replacement level, so we wouldn't have a decrease in population without immigration.
     
    #29 FR7 Baptist, Jun 17, 2011
  10. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,378
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've seen that happen first hand as well. The solution is to deport illegals. They can then apply to come into the United States lawfully, or they can build infrastructure in their homelands.
     
    #30 FR7 Baptist, Jun 17, 2011
  11. mandym

    mandym New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deportation is expensive and unnecessary. Just cut off the money and they will go home.
     
    #31 mandym, Jun 17, 2011
  12. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do I know what I am talking about? I have an MBA and I was espousing the view of Austrian Economics and the difference between full employment. In WWII, we had full employment but we had sticky wages and rationing. It is when the war ended that we stopped having full employment did our economy recover from the Depression. Yet, that is more details than I wanted to get into.

    I do not want lazy people, that is a moral issue. However, my point is not against judging laziness, but my view is that our law is evil because it is judging based upon whether a person is a professional or their net worth to judge on whether they are poor and how much they will contribute. Our laws are immoral because they make distinctions based solely on socio-economics.
     
    #32 Ruiz, Jun 17, 2011
  13. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are for "starving" people out of the country. That is completely immoral.
     
    #33 Ruiz, Jun 17, 2011
  14. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Paul,

    Just so you know, my point is that our current laws for applying and restricting who comes in is immoral. Would you agree that the current laws of discrimination is immoral?
     
    #34 Ruiz, Jun 17, 2011
  15. mandym

    mandym New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Starving is their choice not ours. When a criminal is suffering the consequences of their illegal actions that is not starving them. The responsibility is on their shoulders not ours. God home and eat.
     
    #35 mandym, Jun 17, 2011
  16. mandym

    mandym New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Again, prove it
     
    #36 mandym, Jun 17, 2011
  17. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,378
    Likes Received:
    1
    I agree with you to a point. Many of them will go home if they can't find work. That's why we need to start jailing employers of illegal immigrants. Then Americans can take their jobs at higher wages which will stimulate the economy. However, if they are caught here, deportation will be a necessity.

    Another thing we need to look at is using tax incentives for manufacturers to bring jobs back to the United States. For example, most Fender bass guitars are made overseas even though Fender is an American company. As much as I love Fender basses, I would love for them all to be made by Americans. If we were to institute tax penalties on companies, like Fender, who ship our jobs overseas, we could bring the jobs back.
     
    #37 FR7 Baptist, Jun 17, 2011
  18. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have written on this. Our laws base a subjectivity of human worth as entrance into our country, over and against God calling all humans made in His image. You have offered not rebuttal thus I have proven my point. God made man in His image and we should not judge based upon socio-economic or other discriminating factors. Doing such is immoral.

    I have proven my case, you have not offered a rebuttal.

    I have offered this line of reasoning at least four or more times. No one has disputed my logic.
     
    #38 Ruiz, Jun 17, 2011
  19. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,378
    Likes Received:
    1
    No. A person's worth is not correlated with country of residence. A Mexican is made in God's image and that is true irrespective of if he lives in Mexico, the United States, or Latvia. Setting restrictions on immigration does not make some people of lesser inherent worth.
     
    #39 FR7 Baptist, Jun 17, 2011
  20. mandym

    mandym New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    tax penalties is unAmerican. Tax breaks is much better. People should be free to do business where ever they like.
     
    #40 mandym, Jun 17, 2011
Page 2 of 7
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...