Southern Baptists Now In Decline

If that were totally true, then Jesus would not have given the command in Mt. 28:19, 20.

 

Not sure how this relates to my post you quoted.
Matt. 28:
19Go £therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." £Amen.

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Well, I have to say that's not Biblical.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

You have only quoted the same verses, without explaination. What is not biblical?
Is it
1. men love darkness, the verse to prove it was posted.
2. no one seek God?
Ro. 3:11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
3. If a christian refuses to go to church, who would you blame? The claim is that this christian has nothing wrong it's someonme elses fault. Otherwise why blame someone else unless the christian is deemed not to be at fault. Each person will answer God on their own, they will not be able to bring someone else into it to blame their sin on.
4. Adam and Eve tried it(blaming someone else for their own sin) as I said, in Gen. 3

So when you say

which of these are you talking about?
And which of these do you think your verses proves wrong and how, since your verses do not address any of these, ( the list from my post you quoted).

 

I have been saying this from the beginning, but we were told pastors and sunday school teachers should not be doing this.

 

You mentioned, "If a person refuses to go to church, theres only one person to blame. Themselves."


Lots of non-Christians see it as an absolute waste of time.

 

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Teaching christians how to live the christian life according to scripture.

 

If you are reading the thread and not little bits here and there you'd have seen this person is supose to be a christian9or at least we are lead to believe so by the poster). Who can they possibly blame because they decide not to go to church that God will find their blame acceptable?

 

The first part is to make disciples of all nations not worshippers or good pew warmers.

 

So apparently we aren't to teach people to worship God, and they aren't to listen to preaching(pew warmer, one who sits ina pew).
You make no sense, arguing against the scriptures that tell us to 'teach' christians to live the scripures,how to apply scriptures, to obey God.
I can only assume your church doesn't have sunday school, and your pastor does not teach people how to live scripture how to apply it to their lives.

 

You said that if someone does not come to church they have only themselves to blame. My point is we're also to blame because Christ commanded us to go out and find them and bring them in.

 

I should have phrased it better. We are not to just make pew warmers and worshippers. We are to make disciples. Preaching does not make disciples. A disciple makes disciples. Jesus preached to the multitudes but he did not disciple all of them. He discipled his followers. Too many churches today are program churches as though following Christ is about getting involved in a program rather than teaching each person to follow Christ.

Training and preaching are not even close to one another. Many in the world are discipled without hearing sermons.

Preaching by itself does about as much good as raising a child without personal attention to the details of working toward maturity as an adult. People come week after week and do nothing as a result of the preaching. There are missionaries who do not hear sermons and are discipling new believers. There are those in America who hear preaching week after week and do not share their faith and make disciples.

Discipleship is not about having a program in an effort to attract people but about teaching and training obedience by both example and word. Too many today have been taught a bill of goods that discipleship is doing things such as coming to church. going to Sunday School, etc. Discipleship is not about "doing things" but about absolute obedience to our Lord.

It is funny that you should mention what you did because it brought back many memories. In the first church I pastored it was nearly extinct (as low as 10 people). They had bought into the program method. They had loads of programs and dying at the same time while they were ineffective. I cancelled most of the programs and they complained that it would cause them to die. I taught them how to share their faith and reach people where they lived. They were so busy with programs that they did not know the people in the community. I had the men go with me to knock on doors and get to know people. For two years I met with them intensely each week. Each week they studied their Bible for about 6 to 7 hours each week. I took them down a road of example of what they could do with a new believer. It was amazing how many excuses I got when I asked the men to to go with me to knock on doors. The first time one of the men who was an ordained deacon from another church went out with me he literally shaked. When he came back two hours later he was a changed man. That man started two Bible studies in the community. Within one year we met with more people in the community than we had in attendance on a Sunday. Today that church owns 20 acres, has a church building, and is doing very well. They saw God work and what happened when they sought God.

Discipleship is personally training people to follow Christ. Preaching does not hold people to that kind of personal accountability. I cannot imagine anyone leaving their children to be raised by their teachers in the church and at school.

 

But it does teach. Which we are told to do. How can one learn obedience to God without being taught what they are to obey, what the bible says.

 

If I may rephrase, preaching SHOULD teach. But I've heard far too much preaching that never got one clear Biblical point across.

 

I've heard some of that myself. These preachers are failing at what they do.

 

After reading this all I can think to say is wow.

 

DonnaA--we may agree more than disagree. In my area, in those old days of evangelism, Sunday morning services and SS were unashamedly evangelistic and aimed at the lost. Come Sunday night, Training Union was all about discipleship and teaching doctrine. Ditto the Sunday evening preaching--it was aimed at growing up the believer. Prayer meeting was just that--PRAYER, not Bible study.

My complaint, and I suspect you and I might come to agreement about it, is the move to make every service of the church, every meeting of the church, about giving the member meat rather than including times of evangelism.

Church is not ONLY for the lost. But neither is it ONLY for the believer's benefit.