Southern Seminary

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Chick Daniels, Mar 25, 2002.

  1. Chick Daniels

    Chick Daniels
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    I just got back from a visit to Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville. The conservative revival at SBTS is for real. They brag about a 97% turnover in faculty/staff when Mohler had finished cleaning out all the liberals. What a blessing! Here is a place that in the mid 80s taught JEDP, denial of miracles, denial of traditional authorships of Biblical books, and embraced homosexuality and now preaches inerrancy, Calvinism, holiness of God, etc. And they are excited about it! Lest I wonder about the 3% that didn't turn over, the faculty member I spoke with stressed that the 3% were conservatives that had suffered under the oppression of the previous liberal regime.

    I thought it was interesting that chapel attendance was not required, but the auditorium was nicely filled. There were very few students who didn't attend.

    Chick
     
  2. TomVols

    TomVols
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    I can't say enough wonderful things about Southern. You will hear a lot of misinformation about the supposed demise of the place now. I'm glad you've seen for yourself that this kind of garble is just insidious gossip. SBTS is the premeire conservative seminary on the planet right now.
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Question for you then: A friend of mine ... a PhD student at Southern in Theology just emailed me and told me that in a semester and a half of classes he has not yet once opened his Bible in preparation for or participation in a theology class. He chose Southern over Trinity because of the reputation and the faculty but he is very disappointed. This guy is no slouch. He is an exceptional student. He is not "not opening his Bible" because he is lazy; it is because of the material. What is up with this?
     
  4. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    He is in the wrong field. As a PhD student in NT theology at SBTS, the Bible remained our central focus. I know most of the Systematic profs well and would be surprised to learn he has not opened his Bible in a year and a half.

    SBTS is for real. Their faculty is second to none. I am thankful to be a part of the new and improved SBTS.

    Thanking God for the Resurgence!!!
     
  5. Speedpass

    Speedpass
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    What is JEDP???
    :confused:
     
  6. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    JEDP - The "Documentary Hypothesis" - it's one approach to the various editorial processes that the Torah went through. Essentially, a scholar who subscribes to this hypothesis categorizes passages (based on language and content primarily) as coming from a Yahwist source/editor, an Elohist source/editor, a Deuteronomic source/editor, or a Priestly source/editor.

    Joshua
     
  7. Rev. Joshua

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    It's interesting to hear the new Southern described in such glowign terms. The alumni I know who were at Southern "before the fall" (as they often refer to it) speak of the school with grief and sadness. Of course, the school didn't belong to the alumni and faculty; but they sure feel like it did and consequently feel like it was stolen from them.

    Joshua
     
  8. TomVols

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    Pastor Larry,
    I don't know your friend, nor do I know the particular seminars or classes he is involved with, but knowing the theology professors at Southern, I'm very surprised to hear that. I did not have any such experience, nor has the many, many friends who have went through the M.Div and/or the research programs there. Now I could believe it if this occured when the liberal reign of terror was going on, but not now. No offense intended, but if he's not opening his Bible in preparation, that sounds like his fault.

    [ March 25, 2002, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    If I didn't know this guy, I would tend to question as you have. This guy is no slouch. Perhaps it is different at the MDivlevel; he is in the PhD program. I know he is opening his Bible; according to him, it is just not in preparation for classes. I do not know what particular theology classes he was taking. I know his desire is, in his words, to develop a "robust exegetical theology." He felt he was getting more of a philosophical theology which he was not really interested in I suppose.

    Joshua, I am sure your contact with alumni of that persuasion is due to the circles you run in.

    [ March 26, 2002, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  10. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    I received a ThM in Systematic Theology from SBTS and am now finishing a PhD in NT Theology. I switched fields in order to have a more exegetical approach to theology. By its nature, Systematics does focus upon the philosophical end. SBTS does offer a sound exegetical basis for their systematics, but a concentrated research degree on exegesis would be found in biblical studies.

    Joshua: Return to the Land of the Left
     
  11. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    Of that I have no doubt. Many of these folks, though, are true "Moderates" and "Conservatives." They are former faculty and department heads, and even former trustees. They were people deeply tied to the identity of the school; and who now feel no connection to it whatsoever.

    Joshua
     
  12. Chick Daniels

    Chick Daniels
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    Pastor Larry, Regarding the person not opening his Bible, I wonder what is really going on. The Bible was so much the focal point of the school throughout my visit. Even the campus bookstore was Bible oriented. They featured Bibles, language tools, theology books, commentaries, pastoral resources etc., versus the pop-psychology drivel that you find in so many Christian bookstores. Furthermore, in talking to one of the faculty members, he indicated that they were in the process of adjusting some of the curriculum to further stress theology.

    Interestingly, the man I spoke with said that he was a student there during the dark ages of liberal oppression, and that he and a few like minded conservatives decided to form a Bible study so that they could study the Bible together and weep on each other's shoulders over what was being taught in the classroom. The administration was quite disturbed by the Bible study, but reluctantly allowed them to assemble as an offical group on campus. The first meeting saw a hundred students attend.

    I can understand Joshua, how the libs who left or were ousted from SBTS feel hurt and disenfranchised, but probably no more so than the conservative students felt under the pre-Mohler liberal regime.

    Chick
     
  13. Rev. Joshua

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    What I don't understand is why those students came there or stayed there in the first place.

    Joshua
     
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Not if they held to JEDP, denied the virgin birth, or a host of other doctrinal problems that infected Southern in those days.

    To Tom, I mean no disrespect at all. I have no firsthand knowledge. I was simply relaying what someone has said to me in the past week.
     
  15. TomVols

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    No disrespect taken. I just know my first-hand experience was nothing of the sort you were describing.

    [ March 26, 2002, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  16. Chick Daniels

    Chick Daniels
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    Pastor Larry,

    The person who is a friend of yours is [edited out per request], and someone with ties to DBTS mentioned the same episode to me, but in greater detail. I assume by this connection that you also have ties to the seminary. I am interested in what ????'s criticism are, but wonder about what was really going on in the classroom. I can understand some faculty know their Bibles so well they just quote Scripture to save precious classroom time of everyone flipping pages. Also, as I think about it, I don't think that I cracked my Bible open very many times in 12 hours of seminary level theology courses at Maranatha Baptist Bible College. The notes contained support verses and references, and the instructor talked about them, but we never actually opened the Bible, as that consumes classroom time. It doesn't mean the classes were Bible-less.

    Chick

    [ March 27, 2002, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Chick Daniels ]
     
  17. DocCas

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    It is a poorly perpetrated fraud of a theory largely the work of two unbelievers, K.H. Graf and Julius Wellhausen, in the 1800s. Rationalism and Modernism (Theological Liberalism) was trying desparately to deny the inspiration of the Scriptures and the JEPD documentary hypothesis was an idiotic first attempt.

    Dr. William Henry Green (1825-1896), Professor of Oriental and Old Testament Literature at Princeton Theological Seminary, wrote two books regarding the JEPD folly, both of which are unanswerable by the unbelievers who hold to the JEPD hypothesis. I suggest every Christian obtain and read both books. The Higher Criticism of the Pentateuch and The Unity of the Book of Genesis. Baker Book House of Grand Rapids, MI, reprinted both books in the late 70s or early 80s.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Right on all counts. I had previously avoided using his name because I didn't (and still don't) think it is necessary since no one here probably knows him anyway and he is not here to defend or explain himself. In fact, it may be best to edit at least the last name, IMO. I don't want to cause any trouble for him down there since I know there are people with ties to there. He and I were in numerous classes together at DBTS and received our ThM together. I know only what I have heard from him directly which was only in passing. Knowing Mark however, I don't think that he would be opposed to professors quoting verses or referring to them and I didn't understand that to be the issue (if that makes sense).

    My impression from him was that it was more significant than that. I know when he interviewed there, he related to me that there seemed an inordinate fascination with Barth and others like him, who in reality have very little to offer to an exegetical theology. He was willing to put up with that to get the theology but he was evidently very disappointed with the education.

    Who is your contact at DBTS?

    [ March 27, 2002, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  19. Chick Daniels

    Chick Daniels
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    Furthermore, Thomas, may I point out that JEDP has been soundly rejected by both conservative and several liberal scholars alike. Anyone still holding to it has to get over liberal misgivings about it, much less the sound work of conservatives. It is amazing (well not really) that JEDP still gets into textbooks without even a footnote that it is disputed.

    Chick
     
  20. Chick Daniels

    Chick Daniels
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    Pastor Larry, I edited out the aforementioned name per your request, but you will have to edit it out of your quoting of me. Thanks.

    Chick
     

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