Sovereign in all ways, at the same time, for all time?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by humblethinker, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. humblethinker

    humblethinker
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    I think we would all agree that God is sovereign. There are many different kinds of sovereignty. Here's some.

    Could it ever be the case that God would suspend the affects of even one of the kinds of His soverignty?
    Maybe the same question but reworded: Could it ever be the case that we would not attribute all the kinds of sovertignty to God at the same time, for all time?
     
  2. JesusFan

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    Think that God is ONLY being with "full and complete free Will" , and that He will either use direct/indirect means to have His ultimate Will and Plans fulfilled!
     
  3. humblethinker

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    I don't think anyone here on BB will disagree with either of your points.
     
  4. Skandelon

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    I've wondered about what some believe regarding God's sovereignty in regard to hell. Will God be in "complete and total control" of the eternal torment of souls, or will He be genuinely separated from those in hell in every way?
     
  5. JesusFan

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    Don't think God "delights" in the loss suffering eternally for their sinfulness, but also think that God will have the "perfect" viewpoint on this, and will see to it that ALL of it will work out "just and perfectly"
    per His love and His Holiness!

    Wonder IF since we will know things SAME way God does in final state, that we will not grieve for the lost, as know that all lost will be for a reason!
     
  6. quantumfaith

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  7. quantumfaith

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  8. JesusFan

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  9. humblethinker

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    Would Calvinists answer both questions accordingly?:
    Could it ever be the case that God would suspend the affects of even one of the kinds of His soverignty?
    No
    Maybe the same question but reworded: Could it ever be the case that we would not attribute all the kinds of sovertignty to God at the same time, for all time?
    No

    Anyone care to disagree or elaborate?
     
  10. Iconoclast

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    Wrong...this is the BB after all....

    Who says free will exists period! philosophy does...but scripture does not...

    Is God "free" to sin...against His Holy nature???
    Is God "free" to change????

    Free will is a falsehood of secular philosophy.
     
  11. humblethinker

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    God cannot sin? What if His intent was for good though? ;-)

    What would your answer to the OP be?
     
  12. JesusFan

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    God is indeed have a "full and complete Free EWill"

    Its just His Will shall ALWAYS be with His nature, and would nevr violate His perfect holiness and all other attributes!
     
  13. Iconoclast

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    God can never sin...and in His wisdom woulg never be put in that position...He is not subject to our limitations.


    Jf......because we are bound to our nature...the will is never free..that is the point.
     
  14. humblethinker

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    Would you disagree with the following: "God is bound to His nature... His will is never free."
     
  15. Iconoclast

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    Yes......because He cannot violate His Holy attributes...He is perfect in His nature.

    Jesus never acted independant of the will of the Father...He did not have to.
     
  16. humblethinker

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    Just to make sure I understand you, you would agree that God does not have contra-causal free will of any sort?
     
  17. Iconoclast

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    Humble,

    I do not believe free will exists.....there is free moral agency....

    but free will is only a philosophical idea...not a fact.

    God's will being perfect as all His attributes are.
     
  18. humblethinker

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    Would you address the OP? I'm interested in your answer.
    thanks.
     
  19. Iconoclast

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    Humble I believe in the complete and absolute sovereignty of God....and that not limited by human definitions....

    The best I have read on it is Pink....
    http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sovereignty/sov_01.htm
     
  20. Iconoclast

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    Here is from A Baptist Cathechism with Commentary; by WR. DOWNING
    God Considered as the Source, Support
    and End of All Things
    This means that God is the Creator or Originator and Definer of all things,
    the one who sustains all things in the universe, and that all things exist and are
    being brought to final consummation [their final ordained end or conclusion]
    in him (Acts 17:24–28; Rom. 11:33–36; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:1–3).
    In relation to time and space, God is transcendent, i.e., he far exceeds all
    the limitations of the universe he has created. He is above and beyond all time
    and space. There is nothing that exists above or beyond God. There is no law,
    person or thing to which he must answer; he is absolute, and all created reality
    is relative to him. He is moved only from within himself and his own moral
    self–consistency (Psa. 90:4; 113:5–6). God is also eternal or supra–temporal,
    i.e., he exists above and beyond time (Gen. 1:1; 1 Tim. 1:17). He is immense
    and imminent, i.e., fully and personally present throughout the universe (1
    Kgs. 8:27; Heb. 4:12–13).
    In relation to creation, God is omnipresent (Psa. 139:7–10), omniscient
    (Psa. 139:1–5; Jer. 17:9–10; 23:24; Acts 1:24; 15:8) and omnipotent (Gen.
    1:1, 3; Psa. 115:3; Isa. 46:9–11).
    In relation to moral beings, God is faithful and truthful (Deut. 7:9–10; Jn.
    17:17; 1 Cor. 1:9; 10:13; Tit. 1:2; Heb. 6:13–18; 1 Jn. 5:10), gracious,
    merciful and good (Psa. 103:1–2, 8–14, 17; Rom. 2:4; 8:28–39), loving and
    kind (Jn. 3:16; Rom. 5:5; Eph. 2:4–10; 1 Jn. 4:8, 16), righteous, just and holy
    (Psa. 145:17; Isa. 6:1–4; Hos. 1:1–11; Rom. 3:21–26; 11:33–36).
     

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