Sox/Rays

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Bro. Curtis, Sep 16, 2008.

  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    It would appear that the pressure got to Masterson, and the Red Sox are back down one game.

    Is this the new Yanks/Sox death rivalry ?
     
  2. ccrobinson

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    No, I don't think so. Part of the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry is due to geography. And this is the only year that Tampa's been any good. Need a lot more years before we can compare Boston/Tampa to Boston/New York. I'm still not sold on saying that Boston isn't going to wind up winning the division.
     
  3. Andy T.

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    I'm pulling for the Rays this year all the way, since the Tigers left the building in April. Looks like everyone telling me to "come off the ledge" didn't know what I know - that the Tigers would win no more than 75 games this year, which I predicted in April. Here is Dave Dombrowski's (Tigers GM) offseason to do list:

    1. Fire Leyland and the entire coaching staff.

    2. Resign.
     
    #3 Andy T., Sep 17, 2008
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  4. ccrobinson

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    Andy, were you on the We Love Leyland Bandwagon in 2006? Leyland got so much love in 2006 as such a great manager and I don't know if anybody else is calling for his firing, but surely he didn't forget how to manage.

    Is Dombrowski's job in jeopardy? He traded for Miggy, who's actually had a pretty good season, but, because expectations were too high for him, didn't live up to them and is seen as a disappointment. Dombrowski should probably be fired just for taking Dontrelle Willis, though I think Dombrowski was pretty much forced to take him to get Miggy, ala Mike Lowell in the Beckett to Boston deal. Willis' ERA had gone up every year and he was moving to a tougher league and some thought he would do better in the AL. Really? Why would anybody think that?

    Lost season for the Tigers. If they're going to contend in '09, they better find a way to get some pitching.
     
    #4 ccrobinson, Sep 17, 2008
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  5. Andy T.

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    Leyland has clearly lost the ability to manage this team. Some managers are more fit for certain situations. Leyland was perfect for 2006 - an underdog team out of nowhere. Leyland was horrible for 2008 - a team with high expectations. I think Leyland's ship has sailed. Just like players decline, so does managing ability. He is not the same manager as in 2006. In addition, his coaching staff is horrible - esp. the pitching coach (Chuck Hernandez). Just about every pitcher on the staff has regressed the last 2 years. Whoever the strength and conditioning coach is should be fired too, for all the stupid, lame injuries this team suffers (although a lot of that is on the lazy players too). The hitting coach has been awful too. This team shows little plate discipline.

    DD totally failed this offseason to address the pitching needs. I was being sarcastic - I don't think he should go yet. Give him 1 or 2 more years to see if he can fill in the holes. The bullpen is in shambles. There is only one current member of the bullpen that I would keep for next year - Bobby Seay.

    Lastly, the players don't get off the hook this year, either. They played passionless, putrid baseball for the entire season, except for a few weeks in the summer (mostly against the inferior NL). The one I am most disappointed in is Verlander. If he doesn't learn how to be a pitcher vs. a mere thrower, he's done.
     
    #5 Andy T., Sep 17, 2008
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  6. TomVols

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    I see some of the merit in what Andy is saying. However, it's not as though the '06 Tigers were bereft of talent. The nucleus of the team is pretty much the same, but the pitching has clearly lived past its 'sell by' date. D-Train is out of gas, Kenny Rogers is just too old, Verlander seems to not be able to pitch (as you rightly said) but is just throwing pills, and Todd Jones...well, for crying out loud, it's Todd Jones.

    I don't know if I'd punt Leyland yet or not. I do agree that he may not be a mgr who can fill it when the expectations are high. (if you do want to fire him, I'll give you Dusty...cheap). :saint:

    Agreed that Dombrowski should change his name to Dumbrowski after getting Dontrelle.

    No way the Rays/Red Sox will supplant the Yanks/Sox rivalry. Harry Frazee wasn't from Tampa, so Red Sox nation will not hate South FL the way they hate New York :laugh:
     
  7. Andy T.

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    DD wasn't dumb in getting Willis - he was just a throw in. But he was absolutely stupid to sign him to a 3-year extension before even seeing him pitch. He also signed the horrible Nate Robertson to a 3-year deal. I have no hopes for this team any time soon. They had their chance in '06 and blew it. See you in another 20 years or so.
     
  8. TomVols

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    But that begs the question: was the extension prerequisite to getting him? And CCROB is right. DW went 12-12 in 2006 and 10-15 in 2007. His WHIP in '06 was the highest of his career...until '07. He gave up double the HR in 06 than in 05. His ERA in 2007 was almost double that of 2005, up from an almost 50% increase from '05 to '06. 1 total SHO in 2006-07. Dramatic increases in Hit batters, ER, WP, while Ks declined.

    Signing DW did not make sense for a team wishing to contend unless they saw something we clearly did not. Remember: this type of move is restricted only to the Reds front office. :)

    I think they wanted DW but thought they were getting Darrell Waltrip instead. (NASCAR, meet baseball....baseball, meet NASCAR) :laugh:
     
  9. Andy T.

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    No, it was not. DD messed up big time by signing him to a 3-year deal.
     

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