Speaking in Tongues Volume 3...

As with any church or pastor which would abuse God given gifts. Not every preacher preaches according to the Spirit and message of God. Some preach out of a void of a lack of study and huff and puff the same old tired message of their own.

 

DHK,

You said, 'Mat.7:20--By their fruit you shall know them.
The fruit refers to doctrine, not numbers.'

 

gb93433,

You said, 'As with any church or pastor which would abuse God given gifts. Not every preacher preaches according to the Spirit and message of God. Some preach out of a void of a lack of study and huff and puff the same old tired message of their own.'

.

 

That does not make disciples. That may only fill them up with intellectual knowledge and not move them. Making disciples is teaching them to be obedient. That is not done very well by preaching to them. If it were, a lot parents would be very successful by yelling at their kids.

 

DHK,

I follow your line of thinking.

As to Mother Teresa you use the word 'facing the condemnation of God . . . ' So is it your view that she though a good person did not go to Heaven?

I have heard her speak of her love for Jesus. Does this not count as real faith in Christ? I realize there was a lot of wrong doctrine in her thinking. In this we agree that the final authority is in the Bible.

 

gb93433,

I agree that preaching is important and also teaching. Surely, in our day we need to remind Christians to be obedient to the Lord.

Dr. Stanley who preaches out of Georgia does all three things in his messages.

My messages preached were not just to the mind but to the inner person of the Christian also. I preached repentance and obedience in the every day life of the believer.

 

D28guy,

Your statements about Buddists and Hindus, etc. made me thrown up a red flag too.

I have my serious doubts about Mother Teresa by what she said. I heard and read that before. As to the pope I do not know. He sure has deceived multi-millions with his traditional church tradition that most times supercedes what God has to say in His Word. Put it this way--I am glad I am living, walking and being responsible for my own 'shoes' until the end of my life. My hope and trust is ONLY in Jesus. This is the only statement of faith that I have to offer to others.

 

DHK wrote,
**Now let's turn the tables. For a person who went on three different missionary journeys, preached to thousands upon thousands, established over 100 different churches, how can you even think of saying that his understanding of the gospel was not complete??*****

You seem to be arguing against your own position here.

Let's look at the verse. Keep in mind that the word translated 'perfect' in Greek can also have the sense of 'mature.'

9. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.


When the perfect comes, Paul's understanding will be like that of a man. His previous understanding was childish. If Paul had a complete understanding of the word before the scriptures were completed, then why were the gifts still around in his day? And if someone has the Bible now, his understanding of the word is not necessarily complete. The coming of the perfect is directly tied in this passage to the maturity of Paul's understanding. How did the coming of scripture change that?


***When I was immature (spiritually), I spoke immaturely, my understanding was spiritually immature, I thought immaturely: but when I became a man (more mature as a Christian), I put away immature things (such as the desire to speak in tongues). Prophecy was so much a better gift. And then he proceeds in chapter 14 to tell how prophecy is a better gift. That is the meaning of this verse.***


The way you are interpreting the verse does not fit with your idea that the perfect is the completed scriptures. Verse 11 expands on verse 10. It is in the same context, not a completely different context. The coming of the perfect will make Paul's previous state like childhood in comparison to his state at the coming of the perfect.

Btw, Paul, as mature as he was, still said that he spoke in tongues more than all the Corinthian believers. He did argue that prophecy was superior to tongues without interpretation, but he did not demean the gift of tongues.


DHK wrote,
**There is no revelation beyond the Word of God, the Bible. God has given us no extra-Biblical revelation. If so, then you may as well accept the Book of Mormon as well as any other cult that claims to have extra-Biblical revelation.**

There are some problems with your quote.

1. It contradicts scriptures. Romans 1 tells us that there is revelation of God in creation. Also, we see in the New and Old Testaments that a lot of revelation from God (e.g. prophecies) are not recorded in scripture. I could give you a list if you are interested.

2. Your argument is illogical. If God has given extra-scriptural revelation, that does not mean that the Book of Mormon is valid. That is like a liberal arguing that if Christians believe that God did miracles in the time of Christ, then they must admit that some alleged Chinese miracles from the same time period are true. The argument is just not valid.

Btw, this thread seems to have gotten off-topic. Can't we have another thread for Hinn and Tilton? I believe in gifts of the Spirit, and I don't encourage people to be followers of either of these men. If I tried to watch Tilton's show used to give me the 'heeby jeebies' more than trying to watch a commercial from the psychic friend's network.

 

I just read the last two posts, one by Link and one by D28Guy, and I just want to say a hearty AMEN to both!!


Peace,

Tam

 

It seems to me that I a pastor preached 'salvation by faith' for thirty minutes every Sunday the believers would soon get tired of not learning anything for their personal lives and struggles they have in their faith life.

For any preacher preaching about the concept of 'Seed Faith' as to how the Lord blesses more fully those who support the work of God--all of the time seems to me clearly excessive. Sometimes a few of the T.V. preachers seem to be manipulating the people with their repeated emphasis. Am I wrong?

We are to preach the whole council of God and His Word. Balance is very important.

I used to stay with the theme of the Sunday as on Pentecost, the seven statements of Jesus from the Cross--during Lent, Easter Sunday message of resurrection, Christmas and the birth of Christ, etc.

The other Sundays of the year I would also ask the Lord to direct me to the passage of Scripture that His people needed to hear.

Some more formal churches have a book with every Sunday Scriptures that guide a pastor through the Bible. I almost never used these guides.

I know in the Bible Book stores they have Pastoral Guides through the year. Often I would use the text and the Three Main Points of the Sermon and then develop it as I believed the Spirit of God had directed me to do, with my own emphasis.

 

If disciple them and train them to disiple others then we give them a lifetime of obedience and faithfulness to God's word whether they are on the mission field where there are no Christians or amoing many thousands. Those kind of people do not give trouble in churches unless the pastor is an idiot.

 

gb93433,

You said, 'If disciple them and train them to disiple others then we give them a lifetime of obedience and faithfulness to God's word whether they are on the mission field where there are no Christians or amoing many thousands. Those kind of people do not give trouble in churches unless the pastor is an idiot.

.

 

In Acts 10 Peter is preaching and the Gentiles are getting saved. St. Luke records the historical data and event.

First, let me say when I got saved and until today I have never spoken in 'tongues.' [Acts 10:45-46]

In this instance those who received the Holy Spirit spoke ' . . . with tongues, and magnified God.' [Acts 10:45-46] Shortly afterward they were baptized in water thus declaring their faith in Jesus and being obedient to His command to baptize new converts.

 

I had told some one before, that the gift of tongues is a prayer language between you and God, but if it is for the edification of the church then there is an interpreter needed. This is truly wht the Word of God says and if anyone disagrees then show it to me in the scripture and I will be glad to accept correction on it if I am wrong

 

Ladyhawk,

You said, 'I had told some one before, that the gift of tongues is a prayer language between you and God, but if it is for the edification of the church then there is an interpreter needed. This is truly wht the Word of God says and if anyone disagrees then show it to me in the scripture and I will be glad to accept correction on it if I am wrong.'

.

Dr. Berrian, Th.D.

 

I disagree, where does it say it is a prayer language? Please don't use Paul's hyperbole that if I spoke with the tongues of angels etc.