Speaking in Tongues

They don't have gifts, or abilities except the ability to doop people out of their money.

It's not called putting God in a box, it's called understanding scripture in context.</font>[/QUOTE]I most humbly disagree Some are opening themselves up for demonic power to work through them. The spiritual world is real. All throughout the Old Testament and New Testament there are many accounts of evil spirits trying to mimic the "Real" thing.
I am reading the scriptures in context.
People all around us are wanting to know about spiritual reality. They want to know what their purpose is, what their future is. As Christians, we should be the ones telling them. We should be the ones to tell them what the truth is. If we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, should we act like it? I mean, I want to live the scriptures, not only read the scriptures. The bible is not the living word, we are the Living Word.
If we do not agree upon this, that is okay , it does not have to be a divisive issue between us.
Naomi

 

The tounges granny and I are refering to aren't languages. Not true ones at least. People in other contries as well as our own have cultural back grounds were they may speak in a "tounge" or language. I'm not speaking aginst languages. I myself am learning spanish, because there are a lot of spanish people in my comunity who have never heard the gospel in there own language.
I am speaking out against the yelling, fanatical, jibbering you hear from some of these church's.
I have heard people speak in tounges, and the only emotion I had was that I felt as though I was face to face with something demonic!! I wanted to run, but not because the spirit moved me, but because I was scared!!
It is not biblical today to use tounges. We have no need for them, unless someone is wittnessing, or going to become a missionairy. The tounges in the Bible were languages. On the day of penticost, "tounges LIKE as of fire" not tounges of fire, or what ever these church's believe! The day of penticost many people from all nationalities heard the gospel in their own language.
I know I can not change what some of you believe. I can only present to you Bible truths, and that's all. I may influance, but basicaly people do what they want to.
This is all I'm going to say on this subject,you can argue, or debate -whatever you call it, but as of now, i am not part of it. I find no use in arguing points when people will believe what they want. I think it is more important to serve God, than argue. A virtue of Christian women is wisdom. So I am going to leave this discusion,though I still stand for what I stated.
IMHO&lt;
Abby

 

You disagree with that statement. You believe physics have real gifts? They are telling the truth?
Well I disagree with you.

I'm not sure we are getting each other here on this. Becasue I did not disagree with this.

And you think we can not do this without speaking in tongues?

 

Abby,
You stated:
It is not biblical today to use tounges. We have no need for them, unless someone is wittnessing, or going to become a missionairy.

This was my point! There are Missionarys in Africa, who are Baptists, Pentecostals, Evangelicals....etc. They all speak in tongues! Not the language of the people, I mean biblical tongues. I understand from this statement that you are agreeing that there is a real and true gift of tongues. So, I guess we agree .

You also stated:
I find no use in arguing points when people will believe what they want. I think it is more important to serve God, than argue.

Amen!! This is so true. There is no sense to argue this point. All of us who are saved have a calling in their life. We need to stay focused upon Jesus, and not lose sight of our calling.

Thank you for your reply.
Naomi

 

And you think we can not do this without speaking in tongues?[/QB][/QUOTE]

Katie,

You stated: You believe physics have real gifts? They are telling the truth?
Well I disagree with you.

Do you believe there is a spiritual world? Do you believe that this spiritual world is operating in today’s world? Do you believe that demons have been around for many, many years? Although they are not able to tell the future, they do know what the past is. So, wouldn't it make sense that they could speak through a spiritist and be telling the truth? Some of these people are opening up themselves to demonic activity.
Have you read 1 Samuel? The bible does not say that these occultist activities do not happen. The bible does imply that we should forbid these practices.

Please hear me Katie, I am not implying that you have disagreed with anything I have stated.
I meant that if we could not agree upon spiritists or psychics using demonic powers.
I would not want to make that a divisive issue .

You also said:
And you think we can not do this without speaking in tongues?

No, that is not what I think.

Katie, Have you read the entire bible? I am not implying that you have not, I was just curious.
Thanks,
Naomi

 

wow! We receive the Holy Spirit, but there is no gifts? Are you saying we have a form of godliness, but you deny any power thereof?
Naomi

 

DHK,
You said:
Paul addresses the abuse of spiritual gifts in these three chapters in First Corinthians: 12,13, and 14. In chapter 13:8-13 he explains how tongues, prophesy, and knowledge (revelatory) will all cease. From the context of that passage, along with other Scripture, we can see clearly that these gifts have ceased.

I interpret the scenario here is not necessarily abuse of the gifts, but a dis-order of the usage of the gifts. People were basing their spirituality upon the gifting. Paul seemed to be saying to the church to knock it off, and put things into perspective. The church should have love (charity) above all other gifts. He was basically telling them to grow up. Use the gifts as they should be used. Primarily to edify the body. They should not be used as a show for other's to prove how "spiritual" they are.
He was not forbidding the use of spiritual gifts, he was sharing with them, how to use them. He encouraged them to desire spiritual gifts in chapter 14. Then he goes on to tell them what is more important in a service. He also said in chapter 14:39 and 40- Wherefore brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.

This seems to sum up what the context is here. I find it difficult to believe that all the gifts of the spirit have ceased, if they were given for the edification of the saints.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks for your comments
Naomi

 

Yes, I have several times, and daily continue too.
And yes, your asking does imply that I don't. Your question implys that I know nothing about the bible, it implys that I am speaking just off the top of my head with no knowledge of what I am speaking about. It assumes that I have not studied this subject, and am not award of what scropture says.

 

And just because I don't feel like editing, and most everyone already knows this but I get a lot of misspellings becasue about half my letters are worn off my keyboard. I guess I need to break down and get a new one.

 

speaking in tounges? thats yucky!!!!

 

Yes, I have several times, and daily continue too.
And yes, your asking does imply that I don't. Your question implys that I know nothing about the bible, it implys that I am speaking just off the top of my head with no knowledge of what I am speaking about. It assumes that I have not studied this subject, and am not award of what scropture says.</font>[/QUOTE]Katie,
I am truly sorry that you feel that I had implied this about you.
I was trying to be careful how I asked that question, because often times on message boards, it is difficult to know what a person is meaning. That is why I prefaced the question by saying that I am not implying that you have not read the bible. I did not want to cause offense.
My only motive for asking that question was to find out if you have read the accounts of the occult practices in scripture. That is what I am basing my statements on. I didn't want to just throw a bunch of scriptures at you, if you have not read the bible. I find that when we do things like that, people think we are patronizing them.
Again, I am truly sorry about this misunderstanding. Please forgive me.
Naomi

 

Katie,
I have no problem with your spelling . I can always read your posts okay.
Naomi

 

It's better than speaking "Tongue in Cheek"

(just kidding)
Naomi

 

Naomi, I think we are just getting off on the wrong foot here. Lets not. After all we pretty much saw things a lot the same.

 

Your assessment is fairly good, Naomi. Paul was telling them that love the greatest gift, and they needed to have a proper perspective on the other gifts. There was a lot of pride involved concerning some of the more showy gifts such as tongues. Thus some coveted those gifts more, because outwardly it made them look more spiritual, when inwardly they were still carnal. The primary purpose of chapter 14 was to show the difference how a gift like tongues does not edify the church, while a gift like prophecy does. Instruction and edification were very important to the local church.

1Cor.14:39 "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues."
This is one of the most misused verses in this chapter. Paul is speaking to these believers that are in Corinth. Taken in its context one might rightly add to the verse the words ‘if your living in the first century.' Tongues ceased after that. That command is not for us today, just as there are many commands and promises in the Scripture that are not for us today. Everything must be taken in its context. An example is the Sabbath (I don't believe that keeping the Sabbath holy is for today).

Tongues had two purposes:
1. It was a gift given to the church because the New Testament was not yet complete.

1Cor.13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
---Paul says that "we," the Corinthians, know in part. They had the Old Testament, not the New Testament, therefore they only had a part of the Word of God. They knew in part. God had given some of these gifts, including tongues, for the purpose of revelation until the Bible was complete.
When that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be done away. Elaborated on it reads When that which is perfect (the Word of God) is come, then that which is in part (tongues, prophecy, revelatory knowledge 13:8), shall be done away. That is what happened according to history, when the Book of Revelation was completed near the end of the first century. Tongues ceassed.

2. The second purpose of tongues was a sign to the unbelieving Jew.

1Cor.14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
---First it says that tongues are a sign to the unbeliever in verse 22. So that pretty much does away with the prayer language, the edification of self, and so on.
Second, verse 21 is a quote from Isaiah 28:11,12. Paul says that it is written in the law, that with men of other tongues I will speak to "this people." Who does "this people" refer to? Remember it is a quote from Isaiah. The people are the Israelites, a people who in spite of such a supernatural sign, still would not believe on the Messiah. Tongues were a sign for the unbelieving Jew. If there is no unbelieving Jew present, then there is no need for tongues. They are not for today.
DHK

 

Katie,
Agreed!

DHK,
Well, I do not wish to debate the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, and the use of tongues, as I do not think it will go anywhere usually topics like this just get scriptures thrown back and forth.
I have been around enough to know that I am just at the place in my life where I want more of God.
There are so many things happening in the church world today that is so carnal and self-gratifying. There are so many Laodiceon (luke-warm) churches out there, in so many different denominations.
I want to witness to and share the good news with as many people as I can before I die. This is more of an important gift that we possess as Christians, then anything else.
Lets face the reality of life. People need the Lord.
I conclude by saying, If tongues, or anything else is truly from God, and He desires that we have this gift, I pray that we receive it. If some have it and they are saved and reading their bible, and exhibit the Fruit of the Holy Spirit, and they are not prideful they realize the number one gift to possess is love, then I refuse to stand in Judgment of them.
Speaking in tongues for today? Every individual will have to come to his or her own conclusion. May we be careful not to make our ways higher than His.
God Bless!
Naomi

Thanks for the conversation DHK, You sound like you have a great passion for Jesus!

 

I always enjoy discussing the Word of God, Naomi, no matter what the topic is. I meet many people, however, that base their theology on their experiences instead of the Word of God. Many, if not most Charismatics, do this. Our experiences always should arise out of the Word of God. One must make sure that the Bible is therefore his foundation, and not experience. I trust it is so with you. God bless.
DHK

[ June 18, 2002, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

In Job 4, we see that Eliphaz based his advice to Job on his experience. We can see what that earned him in chapter 42.

Also, remember Jeremiah 17:9...

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

Experience, & feelings are no substitute for the word of God. Well-meaning Christians have fallen into error because they felt Led to do certain things.