Spin off/abortion and voting

Discussion in 'Politics' started by menageriekeeper, Sep 22, 2010.

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  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
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    I feel this requires a discussion out of the realm of the ongoing abortion thread. I'm quoting from that thread:

    Is this really a scriptural position? Can we prove that God applies the sin of one person to another?

    When we vote for a person who believes that abortion is the choice of the individual, not the government, are we really responsible if someone choses to take the life of their unborn?

    I can't see it myself. God doesn't apply the consequences of someone else's sin to my account. My voting for a person who believes abortion should remain legal, doesn't force a woman to kill her unborn any more than my vote for a person who believes abortion should be illegal, forces a woman to bear a live child and then leave it lying to die in the woods.

    I am not responsible for the decisions of anyone but myself. The idea that voting for a prochoice candidate somehow encourages more women to sin is simply illogical. Women sin, because women sin. (just like men do I might add)

    What is being implied by the position that voting prochoice = responsibility is the same as those gun control advocates who try to make gun manufacturers responsible for someone using the gun to murder someone. It completely disregards the free will of the person making the decision.
     
  2. RAdam

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    I think saying that a person who votes for a pro-choice candidate has blood on their hands is going a little too far.

    I will say, however, that I cannot understand why a Christian would vote for a pro-choice candidate.
     
  3. matt wade

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    I don't think it is too far. You vote someone into office that promotes and advocates abortion, then you are responsible for that.

    As illustrated in the "parent" topic, those that do vote for pro-choice candidates value the life of an unborn child less than children that have already been born. When questioned whether they would vote for a candidate that supports murder of teenagers, I've yet to find one that says they would vote for that candidate. Why then will they vote for a candidate that supports murder of unborn children? Simply put, they see unborn children as being worth less than a child that is born.
     
  4. targus

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    I don't think that "applies the sin of one person to another" is the case here.

    Each party has their own sin in this case.

    Let's look at the parties involved.

    The woman obtaining the abortion - she has her own sin - yes?

    The doctor performing the abortion - he/she has their own sin - yes?

    The third party paying for the abortion?

    If I vote for a politician that promises to use taxpayer funds to pay for more abortions - then I am responsible as that third party paying for the abortion - because I would have helped to put someone into the position to provide the money for abortions - based on his promise.

    That vote would be my sin in the abortion - yes?
     
  5. Paul3144

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    The idea that pro-life people who vote for pro-choice candidates are "baby killers" is absurd. It's like guns. I support allowing people to carry concealed handguns with a permit. If someone with a permit shoots someone wrongfully in a fit of anger, is it my fault? Not at all.

    Also, many pro-choice people are personally opposed to abortion. To continue with the gun analogy, I have no interest in firearms. I don't own a gun, I don't want to carry one, and I'm not interested in shooting them. At the same time, I'm pro-gun in regards to my views on public policy. I'm pro-choice, if you will, on allowing people to own firearms and I personally don't have any interest in them. In the same way, one can be opposed to abortion but not want the government involved.

    I also am not a baby killer. I have no issue with babies. I don't want one at this stage of my life, but I don't want to kill them. Yesterday I visited my aunt and uncle and held my little baby one-year old cousin and played with her and sang songs to her and gave her a bottle. She's so cute. I love her very much and if someone wants to kill her it will be over my dead body.
     
  6. menageriekeeper

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    I see the gov paying for an abortion (elective) as a whole different subject from whether or not abortion itself should be illegal. I wouldn't and didn't vote for those supporting nationalized health care either.

    Let me answer the teenager question, dumb though it may be. Yes, the life a teenager is worth more than that of an unviable human fetus because the teen is distinguished by holding the the Biblical criterai for life: breath and blood. (you can see my views on that in the beginnng of the other thread)
     
  7. freeatlast

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    The answer is yes.
    James 4:4
    Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

    Isa 10:1
    Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness [which] they have prescribed;

    We are accountable for our actions and if our actions help unrighteousness then we stand accused.
     
  8. freeatlast

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    Any suggestion that one person, regardless of their development in life, is more important then any other is nothing short of what the Nazi's followed as well as those who stand against God and with Satan.
     
  9. matt wade

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    Your gun analogy doesn't work. The intent of abortion is to kill a unborn child. The intent of gun laws is to provide people with a means to protect themselves or to use guns for sport or food.

    If the gun laws were written in a fashion that allowed people to murder other people, then your analogy would have merit.

    Would you have protected that baby with your life if your aunt wanted to abort it? No? Then you are inconsistent and once again show that you value life less depending on how old the person is. Do you also care less for the elderly?
     
  10. matt wade

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    So, according to you, an unborn child does not meet the criteria for life? Oh geez, that is just pitiful. Not only is it pitiful, but against the rules of this forum.

     
  11. SBCPreacher

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    I don't know that I would go so far as to say that anyone who votes for a pro-abortion candidate has the blood of innocent children on their hands. They may, but I'll never be among them.

    I do agree that I can't understand a Christian voting for a candidate who supports abortion on demand.

    When it comes time to vote, this is my stand: I will not vote for any person for any elected office - local, county, state or national - who supports abortion on demand. I don't care where they stand on other issues, if they can't get this one right, then they can't have my vote. Period. If this means that there is no candidate that I can support, then I will not vote. I will not compromise.
     
  12. Paul3144

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    That's why I always qualify statements that are against the official position with "in my opinion". That way it's not stated as fact, so it's okay.
     
  13. matt wade

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    Yeah...you keep believing that "it's okay", Paul. Keep believing that unborn children are less valuable than ones that have been born...."it's okay".


    And I'm still waiting for an answer to my question, "Would you have protected that baby with your life if your aunt wanted to abort it?"
     
  14. Paul3144

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    Nope. I would now, though.

    Nope. I love old people like my 99-year-old great-grandmother and my 67&68-year-old grandparents.
     
  15. RAdam

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    The biblical criteria? I guess John the Baptist wasn't really alive when he leaped for joy in his mother's womb.
     
  16. matt wade

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    OK..I think I got it....

    inside womb=it's ok to murder the child and Paul would do nothing to stop the murder.

    outside womb=it's not ok to murder the child and Paul would give his life to stop the murder.

    So, Paul, let's say you say a woman who was obviously in her final stages of pregnancy (ninth month or so) and you see that she is about to stab the unborn child in her belly with a knife. She can feel exactly where the head is and while she would injure herself and require a small amount of medical help, she would certainly kill the unborn child. Would you try and stop her from murdering the unborn child?
     
  17. Jim1999

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    Not to justify abortion on demand, but is anyone old enough to remember how legal abortions came about? Do you remember how young women were slaughtered in back alleys and upper rooms in the action of doing an abortion?

    Hence the various stages of legal abortions. It was a social action and very political at source.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  18. Paul3144

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    Of course I'd stop her.
     
  19. matt wade

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    We currently have people that are murdered all over the place. Sometimes during those murders, innocent bystanders are hit by the cross fire. We need to do something about that. I suggest we legalize hit men. That way if you want someone murdered, you can hire a professional to do it so that no innocent bystanders are hurt in the process.
     
  20. Steven2006

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    It would be interesting to see an accurate statistic of how many women died due to back alley illegal abortions versus how many children have been killed as a result of legal abortions.
     
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