Spirit vs. Soul Salvation...HUH?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by bmerr, Jun 7, 2006.

  1. bmerr

    bmerr
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    To All,

    bmerr here. In several posts, mostly by J. Jump, there has been mention of a difference between "eternal salvation", and "soul", or "kingdom salvation". I think that's right, anyway. I'm willing to be corrected.

    Whatever the case, this doctrine is new to me, and to my knowledge, foreign to the Scriptures. Can anyone shed some light on this teaching?

    In Christ,

    bmerr
     
  2. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: The problem of sharing light upon this issue is that when you do it all becomes darkness, hidden from all but the purveyors of this nonscriptural, illogical nonsense.
     
  3. bmerr

    bmerr
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    Pilgrim,

    bmerr here. That's what I thought, too, but J. Jump seems to rely pretty heavily on it, so I thought I might bring it up for discussion to see what the heck he's talking about.

    In Christ,

    bmerr
     
  4. gekko

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    well HP... instead of bashing it at first sight... why not explain your side - speaking in love... not rage. please.

    im on middle ground for this - dont quite understand it fully.
     
  5. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Salvation of the Soul

    You can click on this link and from there you can read it, download the pdf, or download the mp3.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    As far as I can tell - the only purpose of this speculative idea is to "presever OSAS" once you accept that texts like John 15:1-8 and Romans 11 "fear - for if He did not spare them then NEITHER will He spare you" are devastating to OSAS you need to find a trick that will allow NT Christians to ignore pieces of the NT that do not fit with OSAS.

    I see why it is used -- I just don't see it as good exegesis.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. James_Newman

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    bmerr,

    Most people would just dismiss it out of hand without taking the time to look at it thoroughly. I appreciate you opening a thread to ask what it is, it shows that you are at least willing to hear the matter before you answer.

    It is certainly very likely that you haven't ever encountered this teaching. I doubt most seminary students would have ever come across it in their studies. It is easy to think that it is some new thing that never was taught and just forget about it, but the truth is that this has been taught to one degree or another by many throughout the history of Christianity, men that you likely know and have read even, but it tends to get buried for one reason or another.

    It is the belief that there is a distinction made in scripture between being saved eternally through faith at the great white throne, and being saved 'millennially' at the judgment seat of Christ through faith mixed with works. We can't always read the word 'saved' or 'salvation' and assume we know exactly what it is talking about.

    Acts 27:31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.

    We believe that the warnings of Jesus to his disciples were literal warnings of not entering the literal kingdom. We believe that these warnings do not preclude a believer being raised up on the last day, just as Christ promised. That one salvation is a free gift, and another is a prize that we must strive for. The millennial kingdom of God is the high calling of eternally secure believers, not the happy meal prize of a works-based salvation. It is a time when Christ allows those who will pick up their cross and follow Him to share in His glory and reign with Him over the kingdoms of this world. It is something that He wants us to strive for, to suffer for, to hold more dear than our own lives in this world.

    Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

    2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

    So, in a nutshell, we suffer to be accounted worthy of His kingdom. He suffered to redeem us from the eternal penalty of sin.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    This view states that "persevering" as the Bible instructs results in what Romans 2 says it results in -- "heaven" AND that no persersevering ignores Romans 2 and results in "more heaven" just "less millennium".

    One has to WANT to believe it first -- before jumping off that cliff.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. James_Newman

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    Where did you get the idea that I believe anyone goes to "heaven"?
     
  10. BobRyan

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    That would be "the other problem" with this view.

    Point!
     
  11. James_Newman

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    Oh, that problem where we use scripture instead of hand-me-down religion to get our doctrines.

    Revelation 21:2-3
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

    Where is the verse that says 'and they all went to heaven and lived happily ever after, amen'? God created man to dwell on the earth and have dominion over it. He didn't change His mind.
     
  12. BobRyan

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    Rev 21 happens after the Millennium where the saints are all in heaven.
     
  13. James_Newman

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    What? I wanted to end there, but it made me keep typing. What? Wait are you saying God is going to dwell on earth, while the saints are in Heaven?
     
  14. DeafPosttrib

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    Newman,

    The Bible never saying 'kingdom' is so called 'millennial'. Because, none of these passages mentioned on 'a thousand years'.

    Matt. 13:44 doesn't saying about a thousand years. It speaks of from the above - heaven.

    2 Thess. 1:5 doesn't saying about a thousand years. It speaks of being suffering as Christian to be worthy to enter have eternal life.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  15. mman

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    Thanks for the link. At least this explains the position. I too was quite confused on this.

    Do you hold to the position presented in the link?
     
  16. BobRyan

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    ]]


    Nope!

    "I GO to prepare a place for you"

    " I will come AGAIN and RECEIVE You to myself that WHERE I am THERE you may be also".

    God comes "again" and "We are caught UP IN THE AIR" in order to be WITH Him. For just as He went TO "His Father's house" and THERE prepared a place for us - so HE WILL come again and receive us up to Himself taking us THERE to the place WHERE He went and prepared "A PLACE for us".

    Thus all the saints focus on this one event -- so John tells us about that great return event in Rev 19 and then shows us that AT that event the righteous are resurrected - Rev 20 just as Paul predicts in 1Thess 4.

    And we are at that time taken up - to the place HE has prepared for us - "THUS shall we ever be WITH the Lord".

    Praise God -- these texts all fit perfectly.

    But the traditions of man don't fit the story at all.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. Eric B

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    I'll have to look over the site and the one you PM'd me again, but basically, what this seems to be doing is dividing the different aspects of salvation many hold, into the soul and spirit. It is often taught that salvation is threefold: past, present and future. Past is the initial act of salvation when we receive the new birth. Present is the process of being made like Christ now, and future is the actual entry into the Kingdom at His return. The latter two are often referred to as "sanctification" and "redemption", though the first might be called redemption as well. This is based on the various scriptures where each event is referred to as "salvation".

    So basically, it seems the past event is being equated with "spirit", and the future with "soul" and "body".
     
  18. James_Newman

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    Thats before the millennium. So there will be a brief time when saints are taken off the earth, but there not staying in heaven for eternity.

    1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    If the Lord is on the earth, thats where the saints will be. The place He has prepared for us is going to come down out of heaven.
     
  19. bmerr

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    To All,

    bmerr here. Wow. I'm up past my bedtime, and my thinking isn't as clear as it usually is, (which is questionable anyway!), but I checked out the link, since Hope of Glory was kind enough to provide it. Interesting.

    Honestly, I was tempted to just blow it off since it sounds so far out, but that's no way to treat the beliefs of others. I was once a Baptist, and the stuff that I heard from members of the church of Christ sounded strange, too, but they checked out, and now I'm a Christian.

    But this doctrine of spirit/soul salvation seems to rely pretty heavily on a couple of doctrines which I know are false. The main one is premillenialism, which I'd like to discuss when I've had some sleep.

    At this point, let me say I'm not convinced, but still willing to discuss. I've actually wondered if there were a difference between "spirit" and "soul", and if nothing else, there may be some light shed on that. I'd welcome some input from mman, especially. He's a pretty smart fellow, and I gain much from his posts.

    In Christ,

    bmerr
     
  20. gekko

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    i just keep wondering when J.Jump is gonna get in on this one...:D
     

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