Spiritual death

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by psalms109:31, Feb 13, 2014.

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  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Ephesians 5:14
    New International Version (NIV)
    14 This is why it is said:

    “Wake up, sleeper,
    rise from the dead,
    and Christ will shine on you.”

    Matthew 9:24
    he said, “Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep.” But they laughed at him.

    The dead will rise and face judgement the dead will face eternity in hell.

    Our physical understanding of death is not the same as spiritual death.

    Could not spiritual death be just being asleep needing to be waken up by Spirit and life which is Christ word of course when it wakes them up they need to listen and learn eat spiritual food to live.

    A corpse can't suffer eternal punishment.

    We need to eat to live physically and God does not force us to do that.
     
  2. convicted1

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    So we can bring ourselves back to life?
     
  3. psalms109:31

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    Did you read the verses what are the verses saying to you. When the Holy Spirit calls you rise from the dead you do as He says. The word of God is what spoke life into nothing , Do you not think that it can to the dead? The Holy Spirit through Paul tells us to rise from the dead and Christ will shine on you.

    Jesus said she was not dead but asleep and they laughed at Him will you do that to.

    Spiritual death is not a corpse that is a lie. It means they are asleep and need to wake up.

    I am so glad that the words of Jesus can do what no man can do bring life to the dead,

    The word of Jesus is my Spirit and life without it I am dead. Jesus Himself said His word is Spirit and it is life.

    It is a dead sinner that need the medicine not the righteous who think they have life already without Christ.

    Just as we need to eat physically to live physically we need Spiritual food to live Spiritually and Jesus is what came down from heaven so eat and live.

    John 6:51
    I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

    Men's misunderstanding of Spiritual death because they have not considered the spiriture given in the O.P. All I can do is give His word.

    We cannot wake our self up only His word can if we do not listen and learn eat we will remain dead as we were. We need Spiritual food to live. God does not force any one to eat. We live because we eat. It is is the same Spiritual.

    We do not have a choice to be born but we do have a choice to eat. It is the food that brings life. It doesn't come from our self.
     
    #3 psalms109:31, Feb 13, 2014
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  4. convicted1

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    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    Colossians 2:13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    I agree with most of your posts, Brother, but here, you're wrong imo.

    We were dead, and not merely asleep.
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    thought God declared that were dead in our sins and tresgressions, not just merely sleeping!
     
  6. psalms109:31

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    Ephesians 5:14
    New International Version (NIV)
    14 This is why it is said:

    “Wake up, sleeper,
    rise from the dead,
    and Christ will shine on you.”

    So this scripture needs cast out cut chopped off because it doesn't go with our doctrine of death.

    Wake up sleeper rise from the dead
     
  7. Yeshua1

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    Figure of speech, as Jesus said that little girl was asleep, and paul said those asleep in Chrsit, but all were physically dead!
     
  8. convicted1

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    Figurative speech. The maiden was dead, just as Lazarus was. Jesus told the disciples that Lazarus was asleep. When Thomas said he is doing well if he's asleep, Jesus said he was dead. He called Lazarus out from death unto life, and not from sleep to being awake.
     
  9. convicted1

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  10. psalms109:31

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    A serious matter like this. Paul by the Holy Spirit calling men and women to wake up rise from the dead and chock it up to a figure of speach is ridiculous. When you have scripture like that and destroy what the Holy Spirit is saying is sad. You cab lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. You can wake up from death and I praise God and His word which is Spirit and life for that and I can't destroy a pearl and trample it under my feet but to share what people do with it is their choice.
     
  11. psalms109:31

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    A serious matter like this. Paul by the Holy Spirit calling men and women to wake up rise from the dead and chauk it up to a figure of speach is ridiculous. When you have scripture like that and destroy what the Holy Spirit is saying is sad. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. You can wake up from death and I praise God and His word which is Spirit and life for that and I can't destroy a pearl and trample it under my feet but to share it, what people do with it is their choice.
     
    #11 psalms109:31, Feb 14, 2014
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  12. Winman

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    Nevertheless Willis, scripture does not show spiritual death like a lifeless corpse. The rich man who died and went to hell could see, hear, speak, feel thirst and torment, he repented, etc... That's pretty active for a lifeless corpse wouldn't you say??

    The reason we can't talk to the dead is because they are not here anymore, they are either in heaven or hell. Before Christ rose from the dead, all dead went to the center of the earth, either Hades or Paradise. Jesus's voice is powerful and could be heard there, the dead could respond when he called them.

    The witch of Endor could actually communicate with the dead and called the prophet Samuel up. Samuel was dead, but he could speak to king Saul once he came up.

    So, it is an absolute misrepresentation to represent the spiritual dead like a lifeless corpse as Calvinism does. This is not what scripture shows whatsoever.
     
  13. Camery

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    Convicted1, you are correct. It is a figure of speech.

    Matthew 9:24
    He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

    Mark 5:39
    And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

    Luke 8:52
    And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.

    John 11:11
    These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

    12Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

    13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

    14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

    15And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

    All of these verses are saying the same thing and they all point to Jesus as being literally the resurrection.
     
  14. psalms109:31

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    I had a feeling that this is what it would turn to that is why Paul just puts the truth in what Spiritual death is. A corpse is not going to sufer in hell. We trying to understand things by what we see which is temporary instead of what we don't see what is eternal. We see a corpse which is a tempory the part we don't see is eternal. I have no problem with being dead but I was awaken by His word and now am alive. Being regenerated renewed on the inside while my body is withering away. What you see is a decaying body what you don't see is what is happening in the inside and the word of God through Jesus the medicine that brought me out of death and woke me up. Exactly what Paul is saying. Death is not what you see it is what you don't see. We are either dead and facing eternal punishment or not the living you don't see are woken up by His word and alive by it.

    It is easy to see a corpse suffering but a corpse will not be suffering but the dead spiritually that was never woken up.
     
    #14 psalms109:31, Feb 14, 2014
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  15. Camery

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    Yes! That wasn't the point I was making but you are correct. Thanks
     
  16. convicted1

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    :jesus::jesus::jesus::jesus:<------He's what it's all about!!
     
  17. convicted1

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    Look, sin didn't cause us to slumber, but to be slained. We were "dead men walking" and not "sleep walkers". Sin brought forth death unto all of Adam's posterity.

    Sleep and rest, two words you can find quite a bit in the bible, is referring to those who die/died in the Lord. Lazarus was resting in father Abraham's bosom(Luke 16). Then you can read "therefore, there remaineth a rest for the children of God"(Heb. 4:9). Now, to enter into this "rest" you have to first die. So to be resting with God, you had to die.

    So, Ephesians 5:14 is a figure of speech in this case. There is no way we were asleep in our sins, Brother. We were dead in them.
     
  18. convicted1

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    We, as sinners, were dead to righteousness, much like a corpse is dead to having life. A corpse can do nothing to garner life in it's dead state, much like sinners can do nothing to garner righteousness left in that dead/separated state from God.

    Something has to take place on it's...and our...dead state to garner life. This is where regeneration comes in. God regenerates that dead sinner to be able to respond to His call, much like He'd have to put life into a corpse to breath, hear, see, feel, etc.
     
  19. psalms109:31

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    There is a big difference between sleeping resting in Christ being alive and sleeping in spiritual death facing condemnation. We will wake up from physical death and face condemnation. They will not be a corpse. Pause and think about that.

    A spiritual dead can eat, sleep, read, talk, they are not a corpse so mens understanding of death is scewed.

    I did not bring up Lazurus in this conversation you all did it does work if you can understand death of one who trust in God and one who don't. I am talking about the girl, and showing where Paul agrees with me.
     
    #19 psalms109:31, Feb 15, 2014
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  20. convicted1

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    However, Lazarus is a good example that goes along with your OP. They're mutually inclusive, imo.

    I hope that didn't derail the thread, btw. :saint:
     
    #20 convicted1, Feb 15, 2014
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