Spiritual Gifts Today

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Trotter, Apr 13, 2004.

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Which spiritual gifts are in operation today?

  1. Prophecy- the gift of prophecy is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body

    84.0%
  2. Service- the gift of service is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Teaching- the gift of teaching is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Exhortation- the gift of exhortation is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Giving- the gift of giving is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Leadership- the gift of leadership is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the B

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Mercy- the gift of mercy is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of Chr

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Wisdom- the gift of wisdom is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Knowledge- the gift of knowledge is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Bod

    4.0%
  10. Faith- the gift of faith is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of Chr

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Healing- the gift of healing is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Miracles- the gift of miracles is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body

    4.0%
  13. Discerning of spirits- the gift of discerning of spirits is the special ability that God gives to ce

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. Tongues- the gift of tongues is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. Interpretation of tongues- the gift of interpretation of tongues is the special ability that God giv

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  16. Apostle- the gift of apostle is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  17. Helps- the gift of helps is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of Chr

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  18. Administration- the gift of adminstration is the special ability that God gives to certain members o

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  19. Evangelist- the gift of evangelist is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the B

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  20. Pastor- the gift of pastor is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body of C

    4.0%
  21. Celibacy- the gift of celibacy is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Body

    4.0%
  22. Voluntary poverty- the gift of voluntary poverty is the special ability that God gives to certain me

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  23. Martyrdom- the gift of martyrdom is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the Bod

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  24. Hospitality- the gift of hospitality is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  25. Missionary- the gift of missionary is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the B

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  26. Intercession- the gift of intercession is the special ability that God gives to certain members of t

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  27. Deliverance (exorcism)- the gift of deliverance is the special ability that God gives to certain mem

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Trotter

    Trotter
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    I just finished rereading C. Peter Wagner's book, "Your Spiritual Gifts Can Help Your Church Grow." While much of it is good for a laugh (I don't think Wagner was trying to be funny, though), it did get me thinking.

    Anyway, this poll includes Wagner's list of spiritual gifts (along with his definitions). I want people's opinions as to what gifts they believe are in operation today.
     
  2. donnA

    donnA
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    I keep getting an error on page thingy I'll try again tomorrow.
    But in the mean time, I have read this book. I agree with a lot of what he says. Personally I do not beleive all the gifts are for today. The gifts obviously had differetn reasons for exsisting. Some were for showing the validity of the goepel message, that it was from God, some were for the functioning of the church.
    But I'm also not saying thats set in stone either, I'm leaving room for God to prove me wrong.
     
  3. GODzThunder

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    personally I feel that pastor and missionary is a calling and not a gift. The calling comes with the gift of preaching and a host of other gifts though.
     
  4. Trotter

    Trotter
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    Amen, Thunder. Like I said from the get-go, I got a good laugh from some of what Wagner wrote, but even those parts got my mind to moving.

    I don't agree with the way Wagner defines some of the gifts, nor do I actually think that all of them are in operation (as many know, I am very conservative), and not all of them he lists are spelled out in the bible (dirent reference or listing). But at least Wagner put a face to something that many Baptists choose to ignore.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  5. donnA

    donnA
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    I had a problem with the way he defines some gifts also. If I could find that book I'd say which ones since your familiar with the book.
     
  6. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus
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    [​IMG]

    I can't find anywhere where talent, proclivity, potential, learning, study, or anything else is the defintion of a gift. In the poll the words "special ability" were used of something God GAVE to someone, not something they LEARNED to do better. I see no reason to believe that ANY of the gifts spoken of in the Bible are in use today
     
  7. qwerty

    qwerty
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    From a previous post:
    I see no reason to believe that ANY of the gifts spoken of in the Bible are in use today
    _______________________________

    I suppose that includes these, too?

    RO 12: 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. 7 If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8 if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    wagnor says: "Discerning of spirits- the gift of
    discerning of spirits is the special ability that God gives
    to certain members of the Body of Christ to know with
    assurance whether certain types of behavior
    purported to be of God is in reality divine, human or satanic."

    Others report only "divine or satanic".
    Wagnor is is correct.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Alcott

    Alcott
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    For a long time I have been on the brink of concluding, for 2 main reasons, that none of the gifts listed in the NT are given today. The first reason is the same as the title of this thread-- Spiritual Gifts Today, and the poll question. Why is it even an issue if the question is continuously brought up about which of the gifts are 'for today?' Why would scripture list all these different gifts, some of which it is objectively conclusive are not valid today, if that is not true for all of them?

    The second reason is these "tests" and analyses of "YOUR spiritual gifts." I have taken a few of these, and it is easy to see they are just like "aptitude tests" or similar questionnaires. They simply relfect the way we see ourselves, which should be true to a significant extent, but definitely not perfectly. We just answer subjunctively according to the qualities we want to be evident; having the knowledge, latent or more overt, of what abilities that quality indicates. So even if we make every attempt to be honest on these tests, they simply show abilities and interests. And it is not coincidental that most of these will be lifelong qualities we have shown-- not supernatural abilities bestowed on us after making a decision for Christ.

    For me to be convinced of valid spiritual gifts, it would take a lot of exceptions to the above paragraph with clear evidence of, for example, someone who was a real cornball and couldn't make a wise decision about kind of responsibility, who suddenly acquires the gift of wisdom and transforms into a counselor, per se, whose wise counsel is in demand. Or someone who was cold and bitter and unsympathetic, who suddenly becomes merciful, with the 'gift of mercy.'
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    We are all supposed to have
    a giving Spirit.
    But some of us have a special gift
    of the spirit - MONEY to give.

    Also remember that The Holy Spirit Gives
    the gifts according to HIS WILL.
    So even if you have a certain gift this
    year to build up your local church
    now, this does NOT imply you will have
    that gift in the next chruch or next
    year in the same church.

    Sorry, i believe all the gifts are
    given to the universal church (some local
    churches do not need all the gifts,
    so the Holy Spirit doesn't give them)
    now, still.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
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    I have the gift of teaching children at church. It is also a great calling in my life. I also have the gift of helps and feel called in that way. Our church is very large for this area. We have 3 secretaries at church but many times there are extra things that, if done, would make other things run more smoothly. The ladies know they can call me and it'll be done, done right and done well. Also, our pastors know that if they cannot possibly get to see all those in the hospital or nursing homes each week because of a serious need for them to be elsewhere (like funerals or illness), my husband and I will step in. I have no formal training for either of these 'job's' other than that given me by God.

    I do believe teaching and helps are still active gifts today.

    Diane
     
  12. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    Many of the things listed are simply talents, such as those in the world have. A person with a talent for administration and/or leadership would have that talent before and after he was saved.

    However, I do believe that God can do whatever He wants, when He wants. So that could include prophecy, discernment, and even tongues. But before my Baptist brothers and sisters shout heresy, I mean that if God puts someone in a position that requires him to speak in a language he has not learned, to be understood by those he is speaking to, God could and would do so. Just like He did at Pentecost. I would say that this would be very rare, but not impossible. Nothing is impossible with God.

    I believe the Spirit moves as He wills, and only with what is needed for today.

    But I think that the gifts we see the most of today are the ones that we need the most. I too have the gift of teaching. I can say that at times this has gone beyond my "talent" of teaching and have been words and actions given by God to me through no prior planning of mine. The right explanation for that child or group of children at the right time. And when it was over, I have said "Wow! That wasn't me!" An incredible sensation, like being poured through - water rushing through a pipeline.
     
  13. Artimaeus

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    Actually, yes, I include ALL miraculously bestowed instant abililities which the recipient one moment before did not have. I do NOT ionclude every learned ability that some people want to call a gift. Prophesying, serving, teaching, encouraging,
    contributing, leadership, and showing mercy were gifts to the new church. They needed instant abilities to get the church jump started (so to speak) but now, it can be sustained by developing these abilities over a longer period of time. I mean no disrespect to those who believe that what they have is a gift. I have no doubt that God may have blessed their effort. The Holy Spirit may have encouraged them along this line. I just remain overwhelmingly convinced that none of these claims are for instantaneous abilities. Anything else is learned. Even if God gives you this ability to learn and blesses it and has that as a goal for your life, it still isn't the same as a "Gift of the Holy Spirit" (used Biblically, not charismatically).
     
  14. Ben W

    Ben W
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    All Spiritual gifts are for today. The church has been given them until the return of Christ. I can testify that I have been healed of concussion in a Pentecostal church. I then had to actually cancel the sick leave that I had been given and return to work [​IMG]

    I think that it is interesting that the Pentecostal Charasmatic churches that are into Spritual Gifts are getting masses of people saved, I think that is a good proof that the gifts are for today as they are clearly being used to grow the church.

    Interesting that in Baptist Missions there a quite a high number of Baptists that become bapticostal. It is amazing what the Holy Spirit can do when we allow Him to move in our churches.
     
  15. Alcott

    Alcott
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    "I can testify that I have been healed of concussion in a Pentecostal church."

    Oh, you quit playing the drums?
    Sensationalistic hoopla... another reason to downplay 'spiritual gifts.' It doesn't matter if it can attract people. A church which has the atmosphere of a football game or a political convention will only do as much for anyone as a football game or a political convention.

    As for your concussion, is there a doctor who would give an affidavit that it was an absolute physical impossibility for any "healing" to take place? Headaches, stomachaches, and backaches are bogus in these merrymakings. Have you seen a person with an arm cut off above the elbow grow another arm?
     
  16. Trotter

    Trotter
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    No, but I know of a ruptured aorta that was heeled during a ten minute helicopter/air ambulance ride. And I know of a torn rotator cup that is no longer torn. And I know of bleeding ulcers that vanished overnight. And on and on and on.

    God can, and does, still heal. But not just through a specific person. God moves according to His will, in His time.

    I know many who prayed to be healed (and were prayed for by many), but weren't. Our church has a member in a hospital right now who is dieing. He has cancer (third bout), is on chemo, recovering from a stroke. But now, he has had another stroke, and his body is shutting down. It is only a matter of a day or two. We are all still praying, but it is up to God, not us. God brought him back fom the brink of death before, but He may not now.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  17. Alcott

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    How very convenient that these are all below the surface of the skin, and therefore they are like the bakcaches, headaches, and stomachaches. Just why is it we DON'T see a new arm or leg miraculously grow?
     
  18. TC

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    They may be below the skin, but they can be verified by medical personal. My dad had cancer (which is below the skin) just about 25 years ago. He went to the Mayo clinic in Rochester, MN and they told him that if he waited much longer he would have been dead. The Mayo clinic did and redid tests to verify. He went to a pentacostal church and asked for prayer for healing. When he returned to the Mayo clinic for treatment, he was healed. The Mayo clinic did and redid more tests and verified that he was indeed healed. The team of doctors were amazed. The scans and x-rays don't lie. He had cancer one day and then didn't have it a few of days later.
     
  19. DHK

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    I don't believe that any of the spiritual gifts are in operation for today. The reason for my belief is that I believe that all of these gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12, were supernatural in nature. They were not simply talents or abilities. Some of them are hard to explain. For example, what was the gift of helps? We all can help others in some way or another. But in some way there was given to some in the church at that time a supernatural gift to help the multitudes in a way that is not given today. We are not told how this gift operated, but we are told it is a gift, not a talent or an ability. The same holds true with all the gifts.

    God heals through prayer. There are no faith-healers today. The gift of healing in particular was one of the sign gifts, one of the gifts of the Spirit that set apart the Apostles from the others. They proved themselves by the signs and wonders that they did. They healed in ways that no person alive can do today. Take for example:

    Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

    There were times in the Apostles ministry (such as recorded above) that they were able to heal all that came to them. That doesn't happen today no matter what the claims of Benny Hinn and other such frauds are. I would challenge any of such faith healers to walk down the corridors of a hospital and heal all that are there. It won't happen. The Apostles had that power. People today don't. The spiritual gifts have ceased.
    DHK
     
  20. Alcott

    Alcott
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    My dad had cancer (which is below the skin) just about 25 years ago. He went to the Mayo clinic in Rochester, MN and they told him that if he waited much longer he would have been dead.
    The Mayo clinic did and redid tests to verify.


    Evidently they weren't too sure of that "much longer he would have been dead" diagnosis if they "did and redid tests to verify."

    He went to a pentacostal church and asked for prayer for healing.

    That's where it has to be done, right?

    When he returned to the Mayo clinic for treatment, he was healed. The Mayo clinic did and redid more tests and verified that he was indeed healed.

    There seems to be a lot of doing and re-doing here; that is, with testing of the disease and the 'healing.' Did those doctors in those visits do nothing at all in the way of treatment?

    The team of doctors were amazed.

    If your dad paid those guys he must have got ripped off; unless, of course, they did administer treatments after all.

    He had cancer one day and then didn't have it a few of days later.

    That's not something miraculous, as you make it out to be. It happens to a lot of people, with or without any prayer or church.

    But there is one thing I should concede here. Prayer can have an effect on an individual's physical state. But this also works for mysticism and 'ego trips.' It's also true, of course, that if a person loses his 'will to live,' as the result of some overwhelming tragedy, a disease is going to affect him more adversely.

    I will venture to say that the type of "healing" you describe is what makes flamboyant 'faith healers' saturated with the power they have over the people who listen to them, and the perks and money it brings in.

    I will ask one more thing... Where is your dad to day, after these 25 years? If he is alive, has he had any more diseases? If deceased, what did he die from?
     

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