Spiritual revelation is required to believe spiritual truths

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Oct 6, 2012.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    Please witness 5 major examples:

    1 – In the OT, God personally revealed spiritual truth only to His prophets, not to the others.

    2 -- God must provide a small seed of faith for one to believe the saving gospel of Jesus Christ.

    3 -- Jesus spoke in parables so only those with “ears to hear” spiritual truth would believe it.

    4 -- Many supposed born-again Christians just do not have “eyes to see” the Trinity Scriptures.

    5 -- Many born-again Christians just do not have the revelation that
    the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the 9 spiritual gifts are still for today.


    Explanatory note for point 2 above:

    God had His reasons for choosing whom He would elect before the foundation of the world.
    IMO, there are 2 major types of born-again believers:
    -- elect … guaranteed to be saved ... overcomers who co-operate with the Holy Spirit in being sanctified.
    -- non-elect … non-overcomers who do not co-operate with being sanctified, and will not be saved.

    I believe this way because God’s many NT warnings are to believers (not to unbelievers),
    and I do not believe they are lies or empty threats just to frighten believers into sanctification.

    I am interested in your comments on these difficult topics.

    .
     
    #1 evangelist-7, Oct 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2012
  2. The Biblicist

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    Abraham is not called a prophet and he illustrates every true believer (Rom. 4:11-12; Gal. 3:6-8). Samsons mother and father are not prophets. There are many other examples. Salvation in the Old Testament was not restricted to prophets.

    "with the heart man believeth" (Rom. 10:8-10) and the new covenant is God giving a "new heart" (Ezek. 36:26; Heb. 8). Regeneration in part is the giving of a new heart - a believing heart.

    All true believers have "ears to hear" the gospel truth but all other truth is a matter of God's "measure" of grace and "faith" (Rom. 12:3,6).

    False! John 17:3 denies that eternal life is possible for those who do not know the "only true God."

    Hogwash! You do not even understand what it is. The Bible makes it very clear what the baptism in the Spirit is and it has nothing to do with any kind of "individual" experience or second work of grace in the believer's life. It is something that occurred at least three times prior to Pentecost and NEVER had to do with individual salvation or sanctification.

    Moroever, tongues are not the sign of the baptism in the Spirit (1 Cor. 12:29-30) as tongues are not given to all believers any more than the gift of apostle is given to all believers and thus it cannot be necessary for either salvation or sanctification as both are necessary for all believers.


    Jesus repudiates your interpretation in John 6:36-65. He says "ALL" not some which the Father gives to the Son will come to the son and "ALL" that come to the Son NONE will perish (Jn. 6:37-39) but every single one will be raised to eternal life (Jn. 6:39b, 40b, 45b).
     
    #2 The Biblicist, Oct 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2012
  3. The Biblicist

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    The Pentecostal/Charismatic movement is not of God as God is not the "author of confusion" and this movement is the most confused movement on planet earth - 1 Cor. 14:30.

    The Spirit of God has not been sent to speak of Himself but to glorify Christ but this movment is all about the Spirit of God - hence it is not of the Spirit of God.

    Every single prophet in every diverse aspect of this movement has failed the Biblical tests of the prophets proving that the spirit behind it is not the Spirit of God any more than the spirit behind the Seventh Day Adventist movement is of God or the spirit behind the LDS movement is the Spirit of God. The Charistmatic movement is empowered by the spirit of the anti-christ (Mt. 24:24-25; 2 Thes. 2:9) and in addition to the proofs of the mass confusion, focus on the Spirit, and false prophecies that characterize it is the absolute proof that it promotes "another gospel" (2 Thes. 2:10-12) contrary to the gospel of Christ (2 Thes. 2:13-14).

    Any movement that teaches a true born again child of God can be lost is a movement that preaches "another gospel" as the only possible way that a true child of God can be lost is by the doctrine of justification by works (2 Thes. 2:10-12).
     
  4. The Biblicist

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    You are spiritually blind to the most important doctrine in scripture - salvation by grace. You don't believe in justification by grace but justification by works. Yes, I realize you use the terms but you are ignorant of the Biblical meaning of those terms.

    It is impossible to believe that a true born again child of God can lose their salvation IF you believe in justification by grace through faith in Christ as the basis of salvation is wholly dependent upon the personal works of Christ not the believer. Moreover, the word of God repeatedly denies that a true born again child of God can fail to be ultimately saved (Jn. 5:24; 6:37-65; 10:26-30; etc.).

    You do not have "eyes to see" that there is a vast greater amount of APPARENT children of God who are so by PROFESSION but not by possession who fall away from their PROFESSION (1 Jn. 2:19) and the warnings of Scripture are given to make ones calling and election sure rather than dependence upon mere profession that within them is not "mixed with faith" (Heb. 4:2).
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    Thats exactly right. The Truth must be revealed to spiritual Faith, a Faith that is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 in order to believe it, Pauls point here Rom 1:16-17

    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    Those believing in vs 16 are those who had the Gospel revealed to their God given Faith from Faith, the Gospel. Yes the Gospel is called Faith also as here Rom 10:8

    But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

    The power or the arm of the Lord must be revealed ! Isa 53:1

    Who hath believed our report [Gospel]? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
     
    #5 savedbymercy, Oct 8, 2012
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  6. The Biblicist

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    Those who fail the test of a prophet were to be killed (Deut. 13:1-5) No second chance. It was the "prophecy" (Deut. 18:20-22) that also determined the spirit behind the prophecy and a false prophecy brought the death penalty - No second chance.

    Every public prophet within the charismatic/Pentecostal movement has been proven to be a "false" prophet. The whole movement is characterized by false prophets and thus the whole movement is of that "spirit" of error (1 Jn. 4:6).
     
  7. billwald

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    Agree with the IP. Only the regenerate can respond to spiritual things.
     
  8. evangelist-7

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    As explained before ...

    This "movement" has been used by God all over the world to confirm Jesus' Gospel,
    which has brought millions to salvation ...
    not to mention the millions who have been healed physically, emotionally, mentally, etc.

    But you, Biblicist, couldn't care less about any of these things!
    All you care about is spewing your venom against God's latter days out-pouring of His Spirit,
    which has not been handled very well at all by many "Christians".

    You have previously been challenged to speak of your experiences in these Pentecostal/Charismatic
    meetings around the world, where you say the "positive" results were all done by Satan!
    IMO, this is modern-day blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit.

    You have refused to speak to this challenge!

    .
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    Think that your views are getting close to heretical notions such as partial rapture, milliniual exclusion, etc!

    have to realise that the views of the baptism in HS NOT from scriptures, but based upon misunderstandings and traditions brought into the text...

    And that those saved by God are ALL on same level, as JUST saint or sinner!
     
  10. evangelist-7

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    You're mistaken ... I've never even mentioned rapture, let alone partial rapture.

    If you could understand my chart, you'd see what Scripture says about the baptism.
    I have no misunderstandings and traditions ...
    I just had this baptism (long before reading about it) and the results were incredible!
    You don't believe in it ... you don't ask for it ... so you don't get it ... it's called UNBELIEF.

    What about the millions worldwide becoming Pentecostal ... saved and healed?
    You think Satan made millions of false believers who would die for Jesus?
    How 'bout you, would you?

    Why don't you and Biblicist get real, and go hand-in-hand to an evangelical outreach in a foreign land.
    It might be good to get educated.

    .
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    One must first be given the Spirit of God in order to know the things freely given to us by God 1 Cor 2:12

    12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

    Which things are announced to us in the Gospel ! Rom 10:15

    And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
     
  12. The Biblicist

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    Your statement is generic and simply erroneous! This movement is the epitomy of every kind of confusion possible. Their gospel is not the gospel of Jesus Christ and those who are saved within this movement are saved in spite of it not because of it.



    I do not recall any such challenge. However, I must confess that I rarely read your posts and so you may have made such a challenge but I never read it.

    I think this movement is of the devil as it has all the earmarks of Satan (2 Thes. 2:9; Mt. 24:24-25).

    1. Ultimate confusion containing every contradictory doctrine imaginable - 1 Cor. 14:30

    2. Proven false prophets galore - 1 Jn. 4:1

    3. A Gospel of justification by works - Gal. 1:8-9

    4. A "spirit" that emphasizes himself rather than Christ - Jn. 14-16

    5. A religion that is self-authenticating rather than Biblical authenticating (Isa. 8:19-20).

    6. Biblically predicted in the last days - Mt. 24:24-25; 2 Thes. 2:9


    Your opinion is simply wrong as your "opinion" is not Bibically based or supported by the Biblical context of the doctrine of blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.

    For our readers, if you want a thorough repudiation of the charismatic heresy read the two following books by Hank Hanegraaff

    1. Christianity in Crisis
    2. Counterfit Revival

    These two books thoroughly expose and repudiate the very foundations of the Charismatic movement.

    There are some saved and good people in this movement but thoroughly confused as there are some saved and good people in about every aspect of professed Christianity.
     
    #12 The Biblicist, Oct 10, 2012
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  13. billwald

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    The thread title is another way of saying that regeneration precedes conversion. Unregenerate people can't convert because they don't understand what they are supposed to convert to.
     
  14. evangelist-7

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    Hey, congratulations for managing to read the title, but too bad you didn't read the rest.

    The OP is about spiritual revelation of a whole lot of things, of which I've listed 5 major ones.

    A 6th one is spiritual revelation that Jesus was saying He was God with His "I AM" statements:

    7 of these ...

    “… if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.” John 8:24
    “When you lift up (crucify) the Son of Man, then (at the resurrection) you will know that I AM …” John 8:28
    “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58
    “… when it (His betrayal) does come to pass, you may believe that I AM.” John 13:19
    “Now when He said to them, ‘I AM’, they drew back and fell to the ground.” John 18:6
    “I have told you that I AM.” John 18:8
    “Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you AM.” John 4:26


    and 7 of these ...
    “I AM the bread of (eternal) life …” John 6:35
    “I AM the light of the world …” John 8:12
    “I AM the door of the sheep.” John 10:7
    “I AM the good shepherd” John 10:11
    “I AM the resurrection and the (eternal) life …” John 11:25
    “I AM the way, the truth, and the (eternal) life …” John 14:6
    “I AM the true vine …” John 15:1


    I guess you know what 7 represents. No, perhaps not. Oh, well.

    .
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    You mean like DHK has done?

    Don't think that he supports this "movement' as being from God either!

    many saved persons messing up with/in it, but the basic Theology is really flawed, as has wrong views on god, man, and the Cross!

    Do you hold that 'teachers" such as a Copeland/hagin/Hinn/price etc were ALL speaking under the 'annoiting' of God?
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    Your chart presents a very very superficial appearance of unity but sadly reflects complete inability to spiritually discern between things that differ. It advertises very loudly your complete inability to discern spiritual things.
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    Our friends fails to see the difference between how God operated in Acts during that transistion period, unto how He operates today!
     
  18. evangelist-7

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    And which of the 9 spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12) do you have?
    .
     
  19. The Biblicist

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    Which of these nine gifts did the Christians at Rome have? Take a look at Romans 12 and see if you can find them listed? You can't and that is precisely why Paul wanted to come and lay his hands upon them so they could receive such sign gifts (Rom. 1:11).

    You don't understand 1 Cor. 12-14 in its context or the context of apostolic Christianity.
     
  20. evangelist-7

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    Transition period from what to what? ... no choiches to choiches?

    Sure the Day of Pentecost was special ... God was jump-starting the church with a BANG!
    So what? ... New things have to start somewhere, somehow, and even ... drum-roll ... some place with someone.

    Once da choiches were set up, nothing was to change after that.
    Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers ... what's so terrible about dis organization?
    Kapishe (anything at all)?

    God is not responsible for how the church operates today.
    He gives gifts ... Satan deceives ... man is an idiot ... so, what has changed?

    If you an Bibliotech had the baptism, youse guys wud haf some spiritual discernment.
    But, sorry, no cigar!

    .
     
    #20 evangelist-7, Oct 10, 2012
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