Sproul's Semi-Pelagian Rant

I know you can "spout" the Reform dogma. But HOW does it work? Is there ANY thinking/reasoning* involved on man's part? Does man have to then believe the gospel?? THAT is where we may discover we are more in agreement than our respective sotierologies admit.

So HOW is the gospel effective in converting the soul? Or is it all just 'smoke and mirrors?'

Wouldn't you have to admit that the gospel is an effective means of God drawing people to Christ AND of turning or converting man's will, too?? What you appear to be saying is that it can't be both.

skypair

*"Come let US reason together. Though your sins be as scarlet; they SHALL BE [after WE reason] white as snow."

 

I think I understand the theory of "efficacious calling," TC. It is the particulars that I am after. But on a practical level, what is the "freeing work of the Spirit?" What does the gospel have to do with the "freeing work?" What is man's or the elect's involvement in it, if any? What remains to be done after one is free from bondage of the will? "Reverse engineer" it for me. Break it down into its component parts.

skypair

 

OK. I think most Calvinists claim that God works monergistically THROUGHTOUT the process of drawing one to salvation. I like this better.

What I believe you are actually saying that there is a knowledge of sin on your part and also the knowledge of need of a Savior. It is clear that this knowledge could take you either direction -- belief or unbelief -- right?

Good ----- EXCEPT all you have is KNOWLEDGE so far. Knowledge alone doesn't regenerate. I think you would agree, right? Even the "non-elect" have knowledge if they heard what you heard.

The critical link that I see connecting KNOWLEDGE to FAITH and REGENERATION is RECEIVING that knowledge rather than refusing it. Here's where the "what must I do?" comes in. Repentance is evidence of my receiving the knowledge of the truth/gospel and for my repentance I am regenerated and receive the spiritual gift (1Cor 12,:9) as you say, of faith.

***But let's say you believe that the "conviction" of sin and need of a Savior is your conversion -- is the Holy Spirit coming into you in the indwelling power of regeneration. Perhaps you are saying that. That's more logical than any Calvinist's explanation I've heard so far. BUT John tells us that the Holy Spirit "will convict the WORLD of sin, or righteousness and of judgment." Everyone is convicted -- or at the very least many more than believe on Christ, wouldn't you agree??

So no -- the conviction itself is not regeneration. It merely puts the knowledge in your hands that enables you to repent and then receive regeneration and faith.

I hope you don't mind if I try to bring this post before a braoder audience by posting it as a new thread. So far you are the only one who has explained to me in a cogent manner what is inside the "dogma box" of Calvinism's sotierology. Thanks! :wavey:

skypair

 

Ivey, those were my words regarding what I see Calvinists as believing. They believe that they comprehend the Bible with spiritual eyes even before they are regenerate (according to the Biblical understanding of regenerate/reboirth). This gives them "license" to dispense with giving their lives to God in repentance and trust. What they trust in is their "election" which is NOT salvation any more than being chosen to be a Blue Angels pilot is salvation. Repentance is a continual turning from sin rather than a turning of one's whole life in the manner as free willers saying a sinner's prayer.

"Election" is God's purpose for the believer. If you first are not a believer, God has no purpose for you. And you are not a believer if you haven't repented and received Christ as scripture commands.

A more realistic view of what Calvinism teaches is that we are progressively saved -- giving more of our lives to Christ every day. Have you heard that? I have a couple of times from preachers. They don't realize that they are talking about being progressively SANCTIFIED. But no one can be sanctified until they are first justified by repentance and reception of Christ unto regeneration.

Basically, Calvinists skirt the issue of a "sinner's prayer" as a work believing that salvation is "monergistic" and "unconditional." To God, that is like sitting at the banquet table without having RSVP'ed first. or without a wedding garment.

skypair