Staff accountability report

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by agedman, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. agedman

    agedman
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    Many years ago, I was visiting with a friend who was on staff at a church (generally 1500 in attendance on Sunday morning) that also had a Christian school (about 800 K-12) who told me that each Monday morning all staff had to turn in an accountability sheet to the pastor.

    The sheet listed the services attended and if one was not attended the person was expected to state why in very specific terms.

    Also on the sheet:
    The number of visits made, to whom, for what cause, and a summery of what was discussed.

    The amount given

    What were the person's plans for their day off.​

    This was expected from every member of the staff, not just paid members but volunteers, too.

    Two questions:

    1) Do you think that such accountability is warranted and if so, why?

    2) Can you think of a time you might feel the accountability sheet was intrusive and might become a place for the enemy to generate ill will?​
     
  2. Oldtimer

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    I believe an employer/organization has the right to set any legal policies and procedures that they like.

    I believe an employee/volunteer has the right to accept or refuse any job that has policies and procedures they do/don't like.
     
  3. mont974x4

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    That really is the bottom line.

    Personally, I find that type of thing overbearing and unreasonably intrusive. You could find the same information out by having good relationships with people trusting one another. That type of form destroys trust.
     
  4. Salty

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    I'm wondering if the employees knew of the policy before they accepted the job?

    I remember years ago, someone told me that two school teachers drove from Ohio to Fla to accept a job at a Christian school. Well, it so happened that they arrived in Fla early Sun morning (say 4 am) and checked into a motel. They did not wake up until 2pm or so. They did attend the Sun evening service. The pastor wanted to know why they missed Sun am service. They explained that they were sleeping. The pastor said that was no excuse - and immediately withdrew the job offer.

    I don't have all the who and wheres - thus no link, but my understanding this was true story.

    And as a volunteer - I would not be volunteering that info - as Monty said "TRUST"
     
  5. freeatlast

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  6. Sapper Woody

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    In the secular (I had civilian first! Too much military, I guess) world, employees are made to do almost the same thing, sans letting their employer know what they're going to do on their day off. That is a step too far, imho.
     
  7. DaChaser1

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    Think as long as both parties agreed up front on the help policies, and IF they were not legalistic in nature!

    Such as black/white saying no staff could EVER attend a movie in public, had to tell what tv shows watched-assuming no X rated ones anyways was being viewed!

    what if a person went to morning services, and also made evening one, but watched say Lions in between and taken to task for "violating the sabbath" and not just praying reading Bible in between?
     
  8. agedman

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    I neglected to say, that most of the paid church and school staff had been there for some years before this accountability report was instituted.
     
  9. abcgrad94

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    I think it is intrusive and I would not participate.
     
  10. Mexdeaf

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    Stuff like this was common back in the 60's and 70's. Sad to see that it is still being used to manipulate people.
     
  11. gb93433

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    If an employer cannot trust his employees then he needs to terminate them or quit the business. Some employers do not know how to motivate. Tehy just know how to dog people.

    Years ago I was hired to turn a business around. It had been losing money for five years. In two weeks I turned it around enough to break even. In the first year we became the fastest growing branch in the nation. Al I did was to encourage ideas from the people and encourage them personally. Some of the people worked at home without any pay and came to work with new ideas. Even our customers had ideas. People want the business they are working for to be successful.

    Great people do not have to be managed. They just need to be told what their boss wants done. They will get it done.

    People that do not make mistakes are not trying new ideas. Successful people fail more than failures.

    I want everyone to do ministry in the church. I want them to pray about reaching people and making disciples among the contacts God has given them. That cannot be managed just encouraged.

    Anyone that heavily manages others sends a strong message that he lacks direction, vision, and communication. Time to tell him to get on the band wagon or terminate him and get someone who can lead.
     
  12. DaChaser1

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    Look at example of jesus!
    lead by being "real", what he said and did in public same as when he was in private, and he molded his men to , using own God given talents/personalities to be "all that they could be!"
     
  13. Arbo

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    It seems unreasonable to me to require employees to account for time spent on their days off.
     
  14. gb93433

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    Those kind of employers will only get what they request and nothing more. That kind of employer think he is the big cheese when he is nothing more than a control freak. When I had employees I wanted those who would do more than I ask. I wanted them to be creative and think about how to make things better.
     
  15. gb93433

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    While that sounds good it is not true. He was not the same in private as he was in public. He used wisdom. Nobody is the same in private as he is in public. What I do in private at times would never be on a billboard. Jesus did not have a wife.
     
  16. preachinjesus

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    I almost served in a church that would have, at the time, required me to submit "evangelism reports" every week to show how many people I was sharing the Gospel with and their response. Each staff member was expected to lead 2 people a month to Christ and witness to 5 per week. Long story short it was a red flag and I didn't go to the church...which was a great thing since the senior pastor left in disarray several months later.

    The church where I serve is a large church (we run around four thousand on the weekend.) I am in the position to, if I desire, have this exact same kind of system in place for the staff. But I would never do it. Its absurd and abusive. We do have a leadership and staff covenant that talks about how we live, give, and such. Yet we don't ask any to submit reports or account for their time off.

    The best culture you can create for your staff (imho) is one of trust and earnestness. When you prate on their fears and demand abusive compliance to an unnecessary standard you harm that environment and your staff culture. I've seen too many churches with oppressive regimes at the top that harm good intentioned staff people. Your first act as a leader, especially in church leadership, is loving your staff and the second is serving your staff.

    I don't know how you can ask those questions without asking people to lie to you.
     
  17. Mexdeaf

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    And any 'leader' who thinks they won't is a fool.
     
  18. gb93433

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    That church lacked both wisdom and knowledge. It is a good thing that you did not submit to their ways of displaying both. How many did William Carey lead to Christ in the first 11 years? I guess he lacked knowledge of that and what Jesus taught. Didn't Jesus teach his disciples that if they were not received to shake the dust off their feet. Even Jesus was not always received.

    That also means they will lie to anyone because they will do what is convenient. Imagine that as an example to your congregation?

    Accountability in written form looks good but it completely fails to measure the intangibles such as the spirit among the people and what is in the mind. I have seen evangelism happen because of how God is working among the people and the spriti among them. People come and there may be others who do not know them and have never talked to them. "Unless the Lord builds the house . . . "
     
    #18 gb93433, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2012
  19. ktn4eg

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    I can't speak from the vantage point of being on a church staff because I'm not on one. I can see both advantages and disadvantages of having some written staff accountability reports, provided that each member clearly knows before being hired on knows what his/her expectations will be for it.

    I do have some doubts about the requirements for reporting how much he/she gives and also that there being a requirment to witness to X amount of people and having to lead X amount of people to the Lord in a given time period.

    As to the giving, I don't think that's anyone else's business other than that individual and the Lord.

    As for the other visiting/witnessing/leading-to-the-Lord requirements, I don't think its right to expect a staff member do do X amount of these activities in a given time period. While he/she should be expected to do these things, to demand an arbitrary number of results per time period IMHO seems to disregard to the working of the Holy Spirit in and through that individual.
     
  20. annsni

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    At our church, when we fill in our hours, we put in what we did in that time. I just do pretty general like "10-3...ProPresenter setup for all campuses, website update, ladies retreat discussion" I usually do a number of other things (today included helping the bookstore do some computer work, do some spontaneous counseling and doing some media stuff as well) but I don't bother putting those things on the time sheet because there's just no room. But if I had to put down what I do at home as well? I'm out of there! There's no way I'd be employed by a church like that.
     

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