State-Owned Churches Are Killing America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Nov 29, 2013.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    America was birthed in the spirit of liberty and baptized in the blood of patriots and tyrants. Leading the charge in America’s fight for independence was a courageous group of patriot-preachers that came to be known as the “Black Regiment.” I have written several columns on this subject. Suffice it to say here that I invite readers to take a look at my Black Regiment web page to learn more about this early American phenomenon. There is little doubt that without these stalwart Christian pastors, this country would not have come into existence.

    So, what did these colonial preachers have that today’s preachers don’t? The better question might be: what did these colonial preachers NOT have that today’s preachers do? The answer? Two things: 1) an IRS 501(c)(3) tax-exempt corporation status, and 2) a 50-year misinterpretation of Romans chapter 13.

    The now infamous 501(c)(3) section of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) goes back to 1936 (the seeds of this Venus Fly Trap date back to 1872). But then-Senator Lyndon Johnson was the Dr. Frankenstein who, in 1954, unleashed this monster upon America. His motivation was: he did not like the way pastors and churches were opposing his liberal agenda, and he wanted to use the power of law to silence them. He, therefore, introduced verbiage to the IRC that churches were prohibited from influencing political legislation and supporting political campaigns, or risk losing their tax-exempt status.

    Of course, colonial pastors didn’t have to worry about their churches being “incorporated” as State-created (and controlled) entities, or about IRS agents intimidating them regarding what they could or could not say. In early America, preachers were free men; they could say whatever they darned well pleased. Gasp! Beyond that, virtually everyone regarded preachers as being “God’s men,” not the “servants of men.”

    Today, however, the average pastor has become the servant of the State and the church he pastors, more often than not, has become a creature of the State. It is an absolute fact that State-owned churches are killing America!

    CONTINUE . . .
     
  2. OldRegular

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    The solution is eliminate the tax exempt status of Churches and contributions to churches. That is an opinion I have long held!

    Of course the preferable solution would to repeal the 16th Amendment. That is an opinion I have long held!

    Churches would then be responsible for property taxes to states/counties/cities! That is an opinion I have long held!
     
    #2 OldRegular, Nov 29, 2013
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  3. Revmitchell

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    It is just false that preachers today are held back because of the IRS. It is only a few who are capitulating. Most are preaching the word to include political issues.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    I can't say since I don't hear most preachers. I do know some well known black preachers inject politics!

    I would be interested in knowing how many preachers preach against the slaughter of the unborn. Some of the more "liberal" church organizations have endorsed this practice as well as homosexual behavior!
     
    #4 OldRegular, Nov 29, 2013
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  5. padredurand

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    I will donate $100 dollars to your local church if you find me one pastor on BB who has been told by the state what they could or could not say from the pulpit. I will donate an additional $100 if you find me one pastor on BB who pastors a "state-owned church".
     
  6. FollowTheWay

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    Mr

    I would say that politicized churches are killing the Church.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    This country was founded on "politicized" churches.
     
  8. poncho

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    Right. Like there's a 501c3 preacher on this board that has the guts to admit they threw Christ under the bus for a tax exemption.

    The Church has always maintained that “Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church.” But if this is true, can the Church enter into any form of contract with the civil authority that submits the Church to the authority of the State? If it does so, the state has every right to govern the actions, contracts, and practices of that corporation.

    But it should be obvious that the church has no right to enter into a contractual relationship with the state. To enter into a relationship that requires the church to be subject to the state is a compromise to the declaration that Christ is the sole head and authority of the church.

    What are the results when a church incorporates and surrenders itself to the jurisdiction of the state?
    1) The Church is no longer considered a real institution, but it goes through a transformation and becomes a fictitious (state created) person or institution.
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    2) The Church comes under the jurisdiction of the state and therefore surrenders its headship to the state.
    3) The Church’s chief officers become official representatives of the state by virtue of their corporate charter.
    4) The Church must open its books and all practices to the investigation of the state. This would include:
    a. Church membership roles;
    b. Christian school record;
    c. Regulations on all functions of the church and any of its ministries;
    d. Church financial records, including all tithing records (names, addresses and amounts);
    e. Ministers and churches in courts of law are considered wards of the state by virtue of their charter, including all church members (adults and children). The Transformation of the Church (From Reality to Fiction) by Kenneth Talbot, Ph.D.
    http://goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/spiritual/the_organized_church/501c3.htm

    I wonder how many people know they become wards of the state by becoming a member your 501c3 church? Not too many I imagine. Here's an idea for your next bible study pastor.

    Church: Who Started It?


    Who Came Up With the Idea of a “Church” - with an organization - and a building - where people sit down - and hear a sermon?
    It certainly WASN’T God!

    The goal of this Bible study is:
    1) to show that Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ!
    2) to show that God never gave any directions for, never endorsed, and never intended that His followers would form government-approved and licensed corporations, with membership, payment of “dues”, with self-appointed leaders hired and paid for by these organizations, to teach the members a specific set of doctrines acceptable to the specific organization, a set of doctrines endorsed by a human committee.
    3) to show that Jesus, during His entire ministry on earth, including the time right before He was going to be crucified, never made any preparations for the setting up of an “Organized Church.” In fact, everything He did and said indicated that He did not want an “Organized Church” in any shape or form.
    4) to show that His disciples were constantly trying to get Jesus to form an “Organized Church” as they were continually arguing about “who would be the greatest in His Kingdom” (Mark 9:34) and “who would sit on His right hand and His left.” (Mark 10:35-38) But Jesus would have nothing to do with that. He said, “My Kingdom is not of this world.” (John 8:36)
    5) to show that God said, “I just want to be your God and I want you to be my people.” (Hebrews 8:10) (NO middlemen!)




    CONTINUE . . .




     
    #8 poncho, Nov 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2013
  9. padredurand

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    They are ruining America. They've got to be a dime a dozen.
     
  10. Squire Robertsson

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    Poncho, get your history straight. Of the 13 original colonies, the majority had established chuches. IIRC, the breakdown was

    • Congregational: Massachusettes, New Hampshire, and Conneticut
    • Church of England: New York, New Jersey, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.
    • Dutch Reformed: New York.
    I'm not sure about Delaware and Maryland. But, for sure Pennsylvania and Rhode Island didn't have established churches.

    Patrick Henry made his bones as an attourney defending Baptist preachers who ran afoul of Virginia's licensing laws. In the Carolinas, the enforcement of the establish laws sent most Baptists in the area into the arms of the Continentals.

    Massachusettes didn't disestablish the Congregationalists until the 1840s.
     
  11. poncho

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    The way I understand it God never intended for us to have an "organized church" with a "hierarchical structure".

     
  12. go2church

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    I have yet to meet, in my twenty plus years of ministry, one pastor who ever worried about what the government thought about what they said from the pulpit or anywhere else. Maybe instead of vague rhetoric you could provide an actual example. I seen and heard of pastors avoid a topic so as not to offend a segment of the congregation, but no worries about Uncle Sam.
     
  13. Squire Robertsson

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    That's not what being discussed. What is being discussed is the fact that the majority of colonies had "state" churches.
     
  14. exscentric

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    Just a point a church does not have to be 501c .. they are tax exempt by being a church unless something changed in the last ten or so years.

    No pastor I've known has changed their preaching in any way.
     
  15. Squire Robertsson

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    Yeup, that's my understanding. Though, the matter of should a church incorporate status is a whole 'nother question.
     
  16. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Although churches are often threatened with loss of their tax-exempt status — sometimes by anti-church activists, sometimes by the IRS itself — there is no law that restricts churches from defining moral positions and asking people to vote accordingly.

    Churches do not need to organize as a non-profit 501(c)(3) to be exempt from taxation. Churches have traditionally and legally been exempt as non-profit organizations from the beginning of this nation. However, 501(c)(3) status does assure a church's benefactors that all gifts, tithes and offerings are tax deductible, and if that is important, it a good idea to so organize.

    Regardless of whether a church has 501(c)(3) status, the church always has the right to speak out on the issues of the day. In regard to churches getting involved in social issues, the IRS rule against intervention in a political campaign doesn’t apply.
     
  17. padredurand

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    Incorporation is good stewardship. This whole notion that an incorporated church is beholding to the state is hyperbole at best. I made an offer of up to $200 for one real example of a pastor or church that is beholding to the state because of their legal status. Since our incorporation we have had one single contact with the state and that was the day we filed the paperwork with the county office.

    Incorporation does not, in any way, keep a local church from being Corpus Christi.
     
  18. Bro. James

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    The sovereignty of the Lord's Churches has been attacked and misrepresented since at least the fourth century when Constantine, the Great One, foisted paganized apostates, with a Christian facade, upon the Roman Empire. That unholy marriage still exists and has produced many daughters. She has also been known as the Holy Roman Empire.

    Church and government do not mix. Government sponsored church is antichrist. The State is not able to run church, school or O-care.

    If an NT church is incorporated, conventioned, boarded, etc., etc., she has relinquished her sovereignty.

    In reality, the State will not allow John 14:6. Such doctrine is not politically correct.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    There is absolutely no truth to that statement.


    There are no state run churches in America.
     
  20. padredurand

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    Baloney.
    • An incorporated church is in no way sponsored by the government.
    • The state does not in any way run an incorporated church.
    • An incorporated church surrenders nothing to the state.
    • Legal recognition does not in anyway alter the establishment of the church by Jesus Christ.

    The state will not allow John 14:6? Baloney.
    The state has no say over church practice. The state does not have any say over Doctrine. The state has no power to alter the declaration of Jesus Christ.

    God is sovereign. Churches are autonomous - even incorporated ones.
     

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