Strong Drink (Deut. 14:26)

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Hawaiiski, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. Hawaiiski

    Hawaiiski
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    Did God give the Israelites permission to drink alcoholic beverages in Deut. 14:26?
     
  2. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1
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    The Israelites were never prohibited the drinking of alcoholic beverages. The only things spoken against was drunkenness.

    So, did He give them permission in the verse? Not per se. However, in the passage He does specifically allow the tithe offering to be spent on fermented beverage which was subsequently consumed.
     
  3. Allan

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    Except of course the priests who were forbidden as long as they were in the service (time of duty alotted that day) of the Lord. When they were no longer in performing their ministry they could take libation but not while in the service of the Lord.

    Just as the Nazerite who was seperated unto the Lord could not even touch a grape.

    Just as a Pastor and Deacon are not to be given to drink (which is different from not being given to drunkeness).

    It is interesting how those who are in the service of God were forbidden to partake in recreational or social libations.

    Though all things are lawful not all things are good for me.
     
    #3 Allan, Mar 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2007
  4. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1
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    Thanks for the clarification. Yes, they were not to do so because to be drunk while performing service in the temple could easily lead to death - everything had to be done just right so impairment of judgment was unacceptable.

    Please clarify the distinction.

    One should be careful in carrying this too far. For one, Scripture also speaks positively of drink - Eccl views it in the same light as normal food and intercourse with one's spouse. For another comparing the Nazarites and Levi's to NT deacons and pastors is not a good parallel since the former were all about ceremony and particular observation of laws and vows.
     
  5. Hawaiiski

    Hawaiiski
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    Why would any consumption of alcoholic beverages be permissable in view of Prov. 23:29-35?
     
  6. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    Also keep in mind that the word 'sober' in the following verses is the Greek word 'nepho' which means 'to abstain from wine':

    1 Thessalonians 5:6 (KJV) Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

    1 Thessalonians 5:8 (KJV) But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

    1 Peter 1:13 (KJV) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; {to the end: Gr. perfectly}

    1 Peter 5:8 (KJV) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
     
  7. Jerome

    Jerome
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    "Strong drink" was not modern hard liquor(whiskey, vodka, etc); distillation, which allowed higher alcohol concentrations, is a relatively recent innovation.
     
  8. johnp.

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    The only difference is with volume consumed Jerome. 10 to 15 pints of beer verses a litre of whiskey. It makes no difference.

    My position on drunk is that if one can make it home one is not drunk, as long as it don't happen too often. One can be sober whilst drunk. One can be stupid when sober. :)

    john.
     
  9. rbell

    rbell
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    [​IMG]
    Hey, another alcohol thread...

    "There's a 'liquor front' moving through the BB. I'm forecasting a 90% chance of conflict, with the slight chance of severe brouhaha's near the front. Stay tuned to your local moderator's bulletin for up-to-date information."
     
  10. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Does that translate as 'fighting talk'?

    john.
     
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    When are you taking your act on the road?:laugh: You're a hoot!

    Is that a self portrait in your avitar?
     
  12. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
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    That was one of his better days. :)
     
  13. rbell

    rbell
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    Hey! I resemble that remark!
     
  14. ituttut

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    You can and will hear all kinds of excuses from some that the His Word really doesn't mean what it says, or the translators were wrong. It doesn't get any plainer than your reference.
    What they brewed was "strong" and evidently good stuff for they kept on drinking it.

    Some Christians drink and some do not for various reasons, and to each His own, hoping sin does not come from either side if we enter into "judging".

    The first we see of what God gave to man to make his heart glad is Noah. On the other side of the flood I don't know what they had, but they didn't have anything this good, for the ground was cursed. It seems Noah was the "guinea pig" to show us what "drunkenness" is capable of producing. We know Noah was no drunkard, but you can bet that family drank wine to make their heart glad, but not merry.

    God is generous in His gifts to us, and some accept most of them with thankfulness, and a glad heart. Do we know anything better or more exciting than the "marriage" of man and wife? The Israelites enjoyed their wine and these functions, as well as in other settings. The vegetables, fruits, nuts, fried chicken, prime rib, spaghetti with meat sauce, or a bowl of "red". Most of the world has these things available to them, and many saved and unsaved partake of most of what He gives us.

    We should not get drunk, overeat, oversex, or any other sin pointed out to us in the Bible. If one believes it not Christian to drink, then don't drink, but please don't judge those that know it is not sin, and know God's people drank, and we know all of God's can drink, and they can even smoke, if they don't over do it.

    To me it is interesting to whom we believe. The Bible says it is OK to drink, and yes even hard liquor, but man in Christianity believe it is wrong. Where do we get such ideas? If we are honest we know God says it is fine with Him for it is He that gives the go ahead. It is the world we live in that defines for us what they want us to believe. We have The Source for our behavior, but many believe the Source that is a liar who convinces sin is good, and good is sin.
     
  15. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28
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    That was an interesting read. I agree with you.
    I was kind of wondering at your distinction between "making your heart glad" versus "merry".
     
  16. dwmoeller1

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    What about the verse would make their consumption questionable? Don't confuse a warning of the dangers of alcohol with instruction to abstain totally. The same sorts of warning are given about money and food yet few would take those as instructions to abstain from money or food altogether.

    The view of Scripture is consistent - alcohol is not the problem (any more than money is the problem), its the abuse of alcohol which is the problem.

    And in case someone is tempted to argue that this is my position because I want an excuse to drink, let it be known that I have never had a drink of alcohol and probably never will.
     
  17. dwmoeller1

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    But just so we are clear, lets examine the verse in detail:
    29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
    Who has strife? Who has complaints?
    Who has needless bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes?

    30 Those who linger over wine,
    who go to sample bowls of mixed wine.

    31 Do not gaze at wine when it is red,
    when it sparkles in the cup,
    when it goes down smoothly!

    32 In the end it bites like a snake
    and poisons like a viper.

    33 Your eyes will see strange sights
    and your mind imagine confusing things.

    34 You will be like one sleeping on the high seas,
    lying on top of the rigging.

    35 "They hit me," you will say, "but I'm not hurt!
    They beat me, but I don't feel it!
    When will I wake up
    so I can find another drink?"


    Is this speaking of drinking at all or drinking in excess? Drinking or overindulgence?

    Well first of all, vs. 20 and 21 give us a clue as to the intended subject. They speak of avoiding drunkards and gluttons.

    Then, in this particular section vs. 30 defines for us clearly what subject is intended: lingering over wine. The rest of the passage goes on to confirm that drunkennes, not simply drinking, is in view. Scripture consistently warns of the dangers of overindulgence in alcohol, yet also confirms it as a blessings. Same is true of food - gluttony is as bad as drunkenness, yet food is a blessing.
     
  18. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    It is amazing how you did not comment on verse 31.

    Look not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

    That word 'Look' in the Hebrew is the word 'ra'ah'. It means 'Do not consider, have no experience with, approve not'.

    If one takes even a sip of fermented beverage, one is experiencing it... which this verse clearly forbids.
     
  19. Jack Matthews

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    That's a passage about too much wine, not simply consumption. The context of this verse is clearly the use of wine for purely recreational or pleasure purposes. If you'd get away from the [description deleted] KJV, and look at what the Hebrew text says, along with how that text has been historically interpreted, you'd be able to see this. In light of other corroborating scripture, there is no grounds for interpreting the passage as you have.
     
    #19 Jack Matthews, Mar 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2007
  20. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    Now that is just too funny. The (description deleted) KJV came from something that is more antiquated... Hebrew and Greek.

    And if we get back to the Hebrew, as I have shown the Hebrew clearly shows in Proverbs 23:31 that we are to abstain from alcoholic beverage.
     
    #20 His Blood Spoke My Name, Mar 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2007

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