Student's Christian art censored by teacher

Discussion in '2008 Archive' started by Gold Dragon, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
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    This article was brought to my attention by atheists who sided with the student and said that the school overstepped its bounds in this situation.
     
    #1 Gold Dragon, Apr 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2008
  2. windcatcher

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    Interesting:
    Sounds like something which should have been confronted at the beginning of the year.... However, is it proper for an underaged person to be held accountable for everything he signs without the presence and agreement of his parents or guardians? More especially so when it involves obligations or rights?

    I have difficulty with the principal's arguement that he infringed on the religious rights of others.... How so? He did not interfere with their expression or deny or ridiculte their expressions. At the core of art or poetry, or music, is that it is the expression and interpretation of the author....not withstanding guiding influence in some cases (as when requisitioned).


    ...
     
  3. Don

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    The principle's trying to say that the student infringed on the other students' right to freedom from religion.
     
  4. windcatcher

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    Interesting! Where does he find that protection and right in our constitution, I wonder?:wavey:
     
  5. gb93433

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    As a former teacher in high school I never allowed anyone to do anything they wanted. Once I had a student who wanted to make a marijuana leaf and I told him that he could not. I told him that I was a Christian and it was bad for the school's image.

    I can just imagine the angry parents and public if I had allowed students to make idols of worship for cults. There are students who will push the buttons of a teacher. So, you have to allow the same things for everyone.

    If a teacher had allowed religious expression through art some students would draw satanic images and a few might draw other religious images to promote a cult.

    I cannot think of how one might win another by drawing an image such as what was drawn and having the attitude the student had. Just imagine what others see when the family files a lawsuit. The Bible tells what to do when someone is wronged. I see no indication that is what that student is doing.
     
  6. Ps104_33

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    In public schools they teach freedom of speech. They just dont allow it.
     
  7. Salty

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    The same paragraph that give a perosn the "right" to murder their child:tear:
     
  8. gb93433

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    If you have ever worked with adolescents you would know that to be a good thing. Students are minors too. They do not have the same freedoms as adults nor are they held to the same standards of responsibility as adults.

    A few years ago I attended a local high school graduation and the student speaker talked about Mormonism. It was disgusting to hear. Imagine what it would be like if high schools allowed public speakers to say anything they wanted. We may complain when good Christian kids get censored, but would we want to extedn the same support to a Mormon student if that student spent some time talking about Jospeh Smith in an effort to defend Mormonism.

    In society there is not a complete freedom of speech. Some people would love to incite hatred. I cannot imagine scoiety wanting that.

    If a complete freedom of speech were allowed then it would be possible for skin heads to do their thing and for the KKK to stir up students.

    I can remember the days when a number of students brought rifles to school so they could go hunting after school was out for the day. Would you want that today?
     
  9. BaptistLady02

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    Oh brother! What is it with the schools that are so overzealous in their secularism???
     
  10. gb93433

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    If you only knew how many critics good teachers had for every decision they made you would easily understand.
     
  11. sag38

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    I can remember the days when a number of students brought rifles to school so they could go hunting after school was out for the day. Would you want that today?

    I was one of those students along with a lot of others in my school. And, we never thought of blowing someone away other than a buck. I also had a five inch lock blade in my pocket too. I'd take it out and clean my finger nails in class. Never thought of stabbing someone with it though. I would love for those days to return. Now a student can't even bring a set of nail clippers without being expelled. How sad!
     
  12. windcatcher

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    Obvisously our experiences differ and our viewpoint.... which is okay:

    But when I was a student in a public school, an art class was a class of expression and creativity. The teacher controlled the medium at times...i.e. canvass or clay: And occassionally dictated practices of sketches... i.e. trees, or drawing hands, feet, torsos, or deminsions. While the teacher made comments or suggestions and inquire of us as to what our output meant to us and did we have a purpose in communicating through it to others....

    My art teacher would have never thought of censoring anything except on the principal of being vulgar or profane. Some even expressed with artistic nudity, which, while I am a modest person, I did not see as pornographic or purilent...not what I saw exhibited in art by my fellow classmates. I've seen religious art more suggestive and revealing than I saw in my class. A good teacher knows there are boundaries... and where to draw the line of control. A good art teacher or writing teacher....knows its as much about freeing the creativity and expression of students not control.... A teacher of art, or music, or creative writing, who does not understand that creativity is the product of expression of the whole person and controlls too much.... should probably be teaching something more concrete and less abstract.... like math or science, imo.
     
  13. windcatcher

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    Addendum to my previous:
    While I might take a personal offense to something of occult or bizarre expression, I might also consider such productions of 'art' as teaching me more about the troubled side of a youth who may be going through many internal and personal issues..... and may be helped by a little more understanding and patience than by a rejecting judgement that his expression was censored.
     
  14. gb93433

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    Too many parents wouldn't want to cure their child's egotism because according to their mothers that is too harsh on poor Johnny.

    If you were a teacher in the school system or the pastor in a church you would easily see the antagonists one has to deal with. It is shocking. I teach at a university now and you should hear how many have told me they are glad to not be teaching in the high school. Over and over the same thing comes up. A lack of parental and administrative support. I know one teacher who was attacked by a student and he gave that kid some bodily damage. That kid kept coming after him and the teacher knew some martial arts. Soon after that because of the lack or parental and administrative support that teacher quite a few months before the end of the school year. One time I had a student threaten me and I told him that if he ever touched me he would wished he hadn't He needed that. I never had any trouble with him again.

    When I taught high school I cannot think of one time I ever received a critical remark from a parent who was from a foreign country. In fact I was often invited as a guest in their home for a meal. Dealing with Americans was often quite different. Too often they thought school should be fun and require little of their child. The complaints I often heard centered around the idea that I was too demanding of their child. I just ignored them anyway. Some teachers seemed to be unable to do so. So they made their classes easier to avoid the confrontations.

    When I went to Finland to work I was amazed at the difference in their respect for teachers. The first time I was invited to a home one of the people asked me what I did for a living. I told the gentleman that I was a teacher. Immediatrely he motioned to me to sit at the table. He placed me at the head of the table while the rest of the people sttod and talked until it was time to eat. I saw that as the deep reeszpect they had for teachers in their society. A few days ago I read that Finland was rated as having the best school sytems in the world. In that country at the time if a student had gotten in trouble and the teacher wanted the student removed from the classroom then the child was removed from the school because the schools were much smaller and most likely that teacher was the only teacher for that grade. They had few problems to deal with. Most of the time when I posed a question to them about how they dealt with discipline they found it hard to understand what I was asking because they simply do not have t deal with many of the same problems.

    In a few days I went from America who had little respect for teachers and authority figures to a country which was very different in attitude toward teachers. What a huge difference!

    I think Bill Cosby was absolutely right. I blame many of the problems in America on too many spineless babies raising babies. Those who are supposed to be the adults and parents are nothing more than complainers and are afraid to stand up to their child and be the authority. The authority is no longer the authority but rather seen as a roadblock to getting what they want. The parents need to stop being the friend and start being the parent.
     
  15. Alcott

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    If the article is correct, that is happening. This teacher allows "demonic" images in art assignments, but not crosses or Christian messages.

    Is it your contention the purpose of school and assignments is to "win another," and that that is accomplished by shutting up?

    He was "wronged?" That is inconsistent with what you said previously.
     
  16. gb93433

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    That may be true. I do not remember reading that. Imagine what it would look like if every time a Christian was wronged and that person demanded their rights. I expect to be wronged by the world. They follow a god of this world not the same God I know. In the parts of the US where there is the most opposition to Christians I have had the most ministry in terms discipleship. iT is also true around the world. those are the conditions where real Christians walking with God shine.

    Our purpose should always be to win the lost to Christ and make disciples. That is the only thing we can do that that lasts for eternity.


    I did not get the impression that it was established as a fact.

    Ther are many ways to win people. Some are wiser than others in a given situation. As Christians we should always be setting the example Christ would have.

    More is caught than will ever be taught. People will remember our actions long after they forget what we said. Our talk and walk must agree. Most people are won to Christ by a friend and not a boisterous, yelling, condemning person. However I also realize that God used a donkey too.
     
  17. EdSutton

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    Well put.

    Ed
     

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