Submission is...do you agree?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by SaggyWoman, Dec 24, 2008.

  1. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
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    Do you agree with this comment:

    Submission is not about authority and it is not about obedience; it is all about relationships of love and rewspect.
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    I agree.

    When we submit to one other, it must be based on love and respect. It is not about who's in charge.
     
  3. gb93433

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    It is also about authority. It is truly about the authority of Jesus Christ. Submission is putting others first as Christ did being the example. He is our authority.
     
  4. Allan

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    Agreed, it concerns both aspects.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    Why not just accept the meaning of the word submission...yielding to authority and whatever that entails?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    I don't think it has much inherently to do with love and respect, though that makes it easier. It means authority.
     
  7. gb93433

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    I am not sure how that would fit in with someone submitting themselves to another if they are in authority over that person. Such as an employer submitting to an employee.
     
  8. PeterM

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    If I submit to another out of obedience to authority, there is little need for love and a healthy respect. If I submit to another out of love and respect, it is possible to do so without acknowledging that I have been commanded to do so and am known by my submission.

    I think that this is yet another case of the issue not being an "either/or", but rather a "both/and".
     
  9. donnA

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    Not all submission is based on love. Not all instances of submission require love, nor i is needed.
    I'm think of things like, the people to the government, on the job, or inmates in a prison. They chose to submit, but love it not required, nor wanted or needed.
    Most seem to be addressing the op's question from a marriage stand point, yet the op's question does not tell us if this is about marriage. It seems to be more general.
    In marriage I submit to my husband's authority out of obedience to the word of God, but I also do it becasue I love and respect him.
    Outside of marriage love and respect may have nothing to do with submission.
     
  10. HankD

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    Definitely authority mingled with love (agape), if it's the right kind of authority.

    Matthew 20
    25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
    26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
    27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
    28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.​

    Ephesians 4
    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

    And authoritative love does not exclude correction...

    Revelation 3
    19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten...

    HankD​
     
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    If I respect my employer, it is a lot easier to submit to him or her. If I don't respect them, it is harder, but I must still submit.
     
  12. Jim1999

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    I like the NIV version of 2 Cor 10:5..."We demolish arguments AND EVERY PRETENSION that sets itself up against the knowledge of God..."

    This understanding fits very well whether it be God or man. We do not surrender our place of authority, but we surrender it to the betterment of the situation.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  13. John Toppass

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    As an Christian employer, there are certain expectations of fairness, support and action that is to be expected. By making sure that our actions fall in this catagory no matter how we feel, is a type of submission that we show to employees.
     
  14. IveyLeaguer

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    Submission can't be all about love and respect, by definition.

    If it were, the Scriptures would be requiring us to love and respect our government, employers, and other figures of authority. Many of these are enemies of our Lord, and therefore our enemies.

    Now I can love an employee or representative of the government in the same way I love any soul. And I can love my country, which is not the same thing as its government. I don't think the Lord loved the government of Rome or the evil actions of the Jewish council. But he nevertheless had compassion for the soldier who represented that evil authority and restored his ear.

    So we are submissive, primarily, because we are commanded to be so.

    ~~~
     
  15. SaggyWoman

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    If I want to keep my job, I will submit to my employer. I don't "have" to submit to my employer.
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    Biblically, you "have" to in order to adorn the gospel of God (Titus 3:8-9; 1 Peter 2:17-21; Col 3:22ff., etc.). You don't have to work there, but so long as you do, you have to submit.
     
  17. SaggyWoman

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    I think sometimes people define "have" when I define it as "choose to". I can and do choose to do what the Bible says. Or I choose not to.
     
  18. PeterM

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    IveyLeaguer,

    You represent an interesting perspective in your post and I wanted to get your thoughts on the following passages:

    27 “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. 30 Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. 31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.
    32 “If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. 36 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. (Lk 6:27-36).
    12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. (Eph 6:12).

    I believe we are indeed commanded to love those who are entrenched against the Kingdom of God and seek opportunities to show that love in practical way. The battlefield we war upon is not this world and our enemies are not PEOPLE.

    Jesus did indeed love those who were against Him, and He loved you and I when we were His enemies, lost in the depths of our corruption and sin. He still does and so should we.
     
  19. gb93433

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    I have been on both sides of the fence and at times it has been necessary for me to submit myself to employees to learn from them and listen to their suggestions. It is amazing how many times they have had a better idea. When I listen to them they also support me more. Submission does go both ways. However if an employee does not submit himself to an employer it is time to relinquish them of their duties and pay check. It is an amazing difference what submission makes in terms of overall morale.
     
  20. SaggyWoman

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    This is definitely respect, and at some level love.
     

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