Submission to civil authority

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 4His_glory, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
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    Here is question that troubles me. In light of the biblical mandates to submit oneself as a Christian to the civil authorities, how can we justify historical events that we hold dear such as the American revolution?

    Submission to civil authorities is a manner of manifesting the glory of the Sovereign One, so is rebellion a robbing of God of His glory?
     
  2. KenH

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    Or on a very personal level how does one justify speeding? :)


    I think the answer lies in the fact that we are a fallen race and even after being saved we are still fallen people while on this earth.

    One can take the argument about submission to civil authorities to the extreme of saying that it means that Christians should not have fought in World War II. After all, submission could mean submission to anyone - Hitler, the Japanese emperor, etc.

    Personally, I don't think we have to submit to tyranny. I don't have any Scripture. That is just my opinion on living in a fallen world.
     
    #2 KenH, Mar 31, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  3. guitarpreacher

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    The short answer to a complicated issue is that the command to submit is given to you and I as individuals. You and I and and our neighbors who make up our city/state/country have a right to set our government, resist when it is wrong and replace it whenever necessary.
     
  4. Crabtownboy

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    If a country has a leader such as Hitler, Satalin, Mao, etc, should the citizens submit to whatever evil is done?

    In Germany the vast majority did, Chistrians as well as non-believers. Some Christians did not and some paid with their life, i.e. D. Bonehoeffer.

    Read Bonehoeffer's The Cost of Discipleship and his Letters and Papers from Prison
     
  5. Palatka51

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    It would do you good to refamiliarize your self with these words.

    IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America​

    When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    The rest of it is here.

    There are times when a people are to rebel. If they are successful I'd say that it was God's will for them to be self governed. If they are unsuccessful then it was not the will of God. Do you realize that each year that we have a vote we are in effect staging a bloodless coup?
     
  6. 4His_glory

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    Where does the Bible say that we have rights yet alone a right to set up our own government. The only thing we deserve is eternal condemnation. God instituted government to keep in dam up the natural passions of man that would flood the world in anarchy.

    The idea of a right to set up our own government is never given to us in the Scriptures.
     
    #6 4His_glory, Mar 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2008
  7. 4His_glory

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    The Christians to whom Peter wrote his first letter where living under the rule of a very corrupt, evil and dangerous government. Yet they were told to submit to every authority even if it meant they would suffer for doing good.
     
  8. KenH

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    They were also only familiar with monarchies in New Testament days. Governmental wise, mankind has made a great deal of progress since the 1st century A.D. We no longer accept the idea of the divine right of kings.
     
  9. 4His_glory

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    Yet there the only law of nature I know of is that there is a Creator to whom we must submit. And that Creator tells us to submit ourselves to every (the good and the bad) earthly authority. Again no where in the Word of God to we find believers ordered to raise up against the powers under which they live.

    The colonists were living in the one of the freest societies on earth. They had liberties that the turkish Christians to whom Peter was writing would dream of having. Yet they were told that their Christian duty was to submit. It did not matter how good or evil the government was, they were to submit.

    As a side note the only time we find it proper to no submit the authorities is if they compel us to personally violate that which God commands us. Other than that, we are to have humble submissive spirits which is radically different from the common american philosophy.

    Just something to think about.
     
  10. 4His_glory

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    There was the idea of a republic. Remember that Rome was a republic at one time. Also that is besides the point. Did the mandate to submit to civil authorities change when democracy became more prevalent?
     
  11. KenH

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    I understand your point. Now based on the principle that you espouse, should Christians in the United States have fought in World War II to maintain our form of government?
     
  12. 4His_glory

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    I don´t see why not since they were not in rebellion to their government. They were simply fighting in a war that their country had declared.
     
  13. Crabtownboy

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    Because they were fighting against another government, that according to some logic here, God put in place and therefore .....................
     
  14. 4His_glory

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    But God did not place them under the authority of that government. They were under the authority of the US government just as beleivers in Germany were under the authority of the Nazi regieme.
     
  15. KenH

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    But according to your thinking Christians shouldn't care who is in the charge of the government, be it FDR, Hitler, or the Japanese emperor, certainly not to the point of taking up arms.
     
  16. Crabtownboy

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    But, how can you say it is all right to defend one government that God put in place, but to destroy another that God put in place?
     

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