Submitting to his authority

So she doesn't trust the whole scripture but you do?
Btw, you have posted no scriptural support for any of your views so get off your soapbox.

This surprises you? Obviously, you have limited or no experience with women/families of abuse. Though this is a message board, so we don't know what is really happening. Yet with abusive situations, info often trickles out, usually not in the correct order. I believe she is listening to advice.
She adds to the story when it is convenient? You need to apologize.

why do you care so much?

Really? Well I am. It's called being a responsible mother.

Whatever that means. No matter what, it's not constructive

Huh? Children are the main focus, ensuring no more abuse occurs to the family while she is learning to be a godly mother & wife.

Yes, solid biblical advice from everyone but you.

You do not know this, and have no right to discourage her with your outrageous conclusions. Go away

Really? That's interesting

How do you know what she is looking for? How do you know she is looking for something she can't find?

Go take a breather. Calm down lady

 

Since this thread has turned into a debate and this is a fellowship forum, I am moving it to a debate forum.

 

ivorytickler, from what I have read here, you are in a difficult situation. It seems you are trying to figure a way out. That is not bad. What the problem is, is that you want to figure out a solution in your terms, and we are VERY fallible human beings.

I would suggest to obey God's directives in every way possible to you and let HIM deal with the problem and solution. Our job as Christians, men or women, is to simply obey God. He knows what He is doing.

God knows the problems that beset you, both inside you and outside of you. And He knows the way out of them. He is the only one who does.

So turn your insides over to Him and the circumstances outside you over to Him, and pray that He will make you into the lovely and gracious woman He created you to be. He is the only one who can do that for any of us.

You see, it is not the circumstances which are our major problem, believe it or not. It is us, ourselves.

It is probably the hardest thing in the world to turn it all over to God. I've been there, got the T-shirt... But it is the only way out that will benefit your family and you.

One other thought -- since you earn the most money, this is a real blow to your husband's ego. Perhaps that makes it even more important that you look to him to be the major decision maker whenever you can. He needs to feel like more than a 'thing' hanging around.

You are both in my prayers.

 

Annsi telling people they will not change and deciding their marriage is doomed due to their sin issue of pride is not ok. I can see you were digging yourself out of a hole, so fine. I accept your answers. MK, Helen and others have given wonderful, godly advice in a Christian manner.

You state when you tell people the truth, they get angry. Well maybe it's your attitude, and your truth is not automatically the Bible's truth. Your lack of patience to understand a situation before you conclude it "doomed" is ignorant.

This is why she has reacted the way she has to you, and so have I. Again, get off your soapbox. I find it ironic someone is telling the other about the sin of pride while holding a mirror showing exactly what pride looks like.

Btw, I have had Pm communications with her, and they seem to be going well. She thanked me for my post. She seems to be understanding the submit issue, as we slowly get into more details of her life. But unless one takes time, and has the patience to help another person make godly decisions, then it's time to bow out. I don't have all of the answers upon how to submit while protecting your family from abuse. I may have some answers. I say is trust the Lord and he will lead you to the right answer. Telling her her marriage is not doomed is not ok.

You have no business counseling anyone, and yes, I guessed you had a pretty dysfunctional past.

 

Sweetie, if he has given you the responsibility for making the paycheck then he has automatically given you the authority to make the decisions that need to be made, to a certain extent.

However, just as a Christian husband wouldn't make a job change without consulting his wife, you shouldn't make a decision that may change the entire family's lifestyle without consulting him. Personally, I believe you have consulted him way more than necessary. When he left, he gave up all authority over you. He irrevocably broke the marriage.

In my view, how much authority you let him have back is up to you. BUT, if you are going to have a marriage (rather than a relationship) both of you are going to have to learn to do things God's way. That is, he will have to learn to take responsibility (responsibility comes before authority) and you will have to learn to relinquish it. There is but one way marriage works and that is both partners submitting to God first and each other second.

 

Bragging is a sign of insecurity. It is all about making himself look good at the expense of someone else.

I daresay a lot of his drinking is also about feelings of insufficiency. It's why he promoted your career over his (gave him someone to blame if things went south). It's why 'everything' is your fault. It's a power and control issue that is at the heart of all abusers. They feel powerless so they try to control others to gain a feeling of being powerful. It's an empty feeling though. One has to be constructive in and of themselves to have meaningful feelings of confidence. Control only gives an illusion of confidence.

He is going to have to build up confidence in himself and he won't be able to that if he can't experience failure and deal with it constructively (for a change). He can't fail if you won't let him.

 

Let's be done with our communications Ann.

 

Since none of the advice given has been heeded, this will be my last post on the subject.

Ivory: Your marriage problems are too complicated to seek advice on the Internet. You and your husband need to go to joint Christian counseling and learn to submit to each other.

No one here (including Joe) is qualified to tell you how to run your life. No one is walking in your shoes.

I DO know, from personal experience, that until you go to God and tell Him that 'whatever it takes, thy will be done', then and only then can He straighten out your life.

God will not allow anything to happen that He does not want to happen. He is still in control. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever and His directives do not change from one generation to the next.

 

Lord,

Please bless and keep this board and enable us to withstand any evil attack. For we know our fight is not against each other, but against the evil forces of this world.

In the name of Jesus, Amen raying:

 

How is he going to get himself right if you're not right? Remember, God says the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believer.

Now you let him back into the house, that takes responsibility off him and puts it back on you. I hate to say it, but you are enabling him to keep on the same track. He wouldn't have returned my house until ALL had been worked out and I had proof positive that he was ready to be a husband. At this point, ya'll barely have a relationship, much less a marriage. He's going to continue to be a deadbeat until he runs into a consequence that make him think seriously about what he is doing. God can't convict a person who has no reason to repent.

He's not forgetting that you are a woman. At this point he still doesn't care. You are allowing both he and you to fall back into the same patterns you just drug yourself out of. And if he hadn't of left, you wouldn't have fought him. You were stuck in the rut with a better the devil you know than the one you don't attitude and you are still half in that rut. This is from a lack of faith in God, on your part, that He will meet all your needs.

Why are you still arguing with him? He broke your marriage. It's not up to him to argue with you at this point. You need to tell him that he has yet to prove that he can be a true husband to you and until he does there can be no marriage and no arguement. Right now, all you have is a piece of paper.

You need to consider things from his point of view and make certain that you know everything there is to know about your and his finances. You might not can see why he wants you in a higher paying career, but I bet he has a reason and it may not be a bigger house. Men have all sorts of ways to hide things from their wives, especially since he's one at home bringing in the mail! As much as you are gone through, he needs to be transparent with you. If he can't be, then you need to back off from this reconcialation a bit even if that means moving into the basement while he lives upstairs.

As far as the house goes, just don't. My poor husband tried just once to do the Lord of the Manor routine. We were working the same hours, though I didn't make quite as much as he. He got some idea that since I didn't make as much as he that I needed to do more of the household chores than he did even though I wasn't at home any more than he (we worked for the same company even!). I told him I would do exactly as much as he was willing, that a husband that loved his wife didn't play games like that. It took 3 weeks. He did nothing. I did nothing. Btw, it hurts a woman a lot more than a man to leave things undone. 3 looonnng weeks. No dishes, no dusting, trash didn't get picked up. Nothing. We went to work, came home, watched tv and went to bed. I didn't nag and if he complained I totally ignored him. I didn't repeat myself, argue or fuss. We had had these kinds of discussions before we were married and he had basically agreed that we'd share the chores, but his mama hadn't ever made him do much so he thought I'd be like her. Three weeks. I gritted my teeth everytime I walked to the kitchen.

Saturday morning after the third week, T says, I'll help if you want to clean up. And we cleaned up. I didn't brag, say I told you so or any of the above and I never had that particular problem again. This I might add all happened before the bad stuff. Even he laughs about it now. He knew he was wrong, but he wanted to know what I'd put up with. (sometimes men are children in disguise. )

Men have to suffer their own consequences. Your husbands consequence is that he has lost his authority. He'd like it back, but he needs to understand that with that authority comes great responsilbility that he can't shirk off on to you. And that is the responsibitility to care for his family: you, your children, his children from previous relationships and even alimony if he must pay it. It is certainly not your responsilbility to pay his child support/alimony, if you are doing so.

Umm, is paying for your tuition? Who is watching the kids while you are going to school and working? ARe you sure you are doing it all or is he contributing in ways you haven't counted because he doens't do things they way you want them?

He also needs to be very concerned that you aren't enjoying your career track. Disenchantment often means low job performance and then no job at all. It is a foolish husband who doesn't consider the wishes and needs of his wife. Right now, I'm not certain that he is your husband. With no more commitment than moving back into the house from him, I can't see that your marriage is any better off than when he lived elsewhere.

Sue is right. You have way to many problems to be dealt with on the BB. If he won't go to a Christian counselor with you, then you need to go by yourself. If you get any garbage about how you should submit to abuse, find a different counselor. As always there are good ones and bad ones. You need to find one that understands that your marriage is broken, not weak, not having a little trouble, but broke into little pieces that only the Lord can put back together. Let husband also continue where he is. I daresay he needs both. But you must take care of own spiritual needs in order to plan for the future.

Let me add that this isn't a reward situation. You are not rewarding your husband when you give back to him the responsibilities that he is supposed to be carrying already. God gave him his orders when he married you, it isn't a reward! Your submission to him is also NOT a reward. It is you following your orders that God gave you when you married. This is not a get what you can type situation. You are not breaking open a pinata to get the prize. Stop thinking of it as such.

 

Cindy --

I am one of the posters on this board that believes in the authority of God's Word - that the Words of God even to the point of the Ten Commandments are binding -- and that the Law of God is not nailed to the cross - just our debt of sin is nailed to the cross.

So my advice is going to sound a lot like "God said to do this in His Word so we have to do it" on this subject just like I say that on a lot of other topics.

Others might want to respond with something like "that is bondage to the Law - we are free and should not be bound by such things as God-said-it so do-it".

So you may get a few different views on this.

Given the context of a Marriage between two actual Christians that are submitted to God -- we have --


In Gen 3 God stated that the order in Marriage is that the man rules over the woman. This is primariy due to the sinful nature and the fact that two competting sinful (flawed) wills can not both be the decision point on all matters and still have an outcome other than divorce.

So for the sake of order and harmony in the case of a tie - the deciding vote goes to the man.

Having said that -- the order for the man is to love the Woman as Christ loved the Church and gave HIMSELF up for HER. This is a give-all-for-others model and when you volunteer to step into the man's role - that is the role you are claiming. An "I give up all for you dear" role.

But more importanly - Christ has to be the center of the Home for any home to stay together. You can not go Christ in famiy worship each day saying "Christ - I have a better Idea -- How about you deal with me as the head of the home instead of my husband".

In James 4 the Bible says "let not many of you seek to become teachers for as such you shall incurr a stricter judgment" this applies as well to the role that you are trying to claim in the home.

This is much more than an issue "about money".


Given the context of a Marriage where the man has left the woman for another and has informed his former family that he is now with someone else... we have an entirely different issue.


Step one. Do not get back together until he becomes an actual Christian. Rule 1 you do not marry someone who is not a Christian today -- you do not marry them "just because they are an x-" as a way to get around rule 1.

The Bible is actually very specific about the danger of returning to a spouse that has left and already selected someone else as their mate -- even if they try later to return.

In any case the solution of -- "reMarriarge first -- then later God may be allowed in if all goes well in the marriage and substance-abuse recovery programs" is a high risk way to get back on your feet.

in Christ,

Bob