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Suffering vs. Deliverance

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by micahaaron, Sep 4, 2003.

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  1. micahaaron

    micahaaron New Member

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    I struggle with the idea of suffering versus deliverance. I've been reading the Voice of the Martyr's magazine and noticed there is alot suffering Christians in the world who suffering in the name of Christ. I also noticed other Christians suffer through sickness or diseases and other general trials and tribulations. I have read through the bible that God does desire us to expereince suffering. But, as well, God does desire we be delivered if we trust him and ask him. There is lots of scriptures both in old and new testement for deliverence.
    So, what position do we take? And, is it determine based upon our situation at hand?

    MA
     
    #1 micahaaron, Sep 4, 2003
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Perhaps what we perceive as "suffering" is really "deliverance".

    And like Paul, we can rejoice in suffering
    And as I limp around, not able to feel my feet, that is a lot easier to type than to live. It is really hard for me. [​IMG]
     
    #2 Dr. Bob, Sep 4, 2003
  3. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord New Member

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    Where does the Bible say that God desires us to suffer :confused:
     
    #3 Jesus is Lord, Sep 5, 2003
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Not always. Consider Paul (2 Cor 12) as well as the other apostles most of whom were martyred.

    We take a position ot rest in God's sovereignty so that as Paul says, Christ's power may be seen through us and in us." If we suffer for righteousness sake, it is good. If we are delivered, it is good. If we die for the faith, then it is better because we have a home in heaven. God does what is best for his glory.
     
    #4 Pastor Larry, Sep 5, 2003
  5. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Why should we suffer as Christian?

    Do not forget HOW MUCH does Jesus suffer on the cross!

    That why 1 Peter 2:21 tells us, that we should follow Christ's example, that we should suffer for him, because he suffered for us.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
    #5 DeafPosttrib, Sep 5, 2003
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I think PEter's poitn was not that we should follow Christ in suffering, but that when we suffer, we should follow his example in it. You almost make it sound as if we should seek suffering. That is certainly not what Peter would say. The point is that we should not run from it or fear it. Rather handle it as Christ did ... with patience and trust in God that he is doing what is right (1 Peter 2:24ff).
     
    #6 Pastor Larry, Sep 5, 2003
  7. micahaaron

    micahaaron New Member

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    Another look:
    Suffering: Suffering Christ, calvary, resurrection
    suffering of Joseph (Genesis), martyrs for Christ


    Deliverance: Conqureing King, Christ judges, Christ heals, Christ saves us from sin, addictions and destructive behaviors, Christ delivers demons out of people, victory of satan and sin for believers, Christ coming back to reign in our physical realm, Christ reign already in our hearts.

    New Question:
    Are both suffering and deliverance as equal in giving God glory?
     
    #7 micahaaron, Sep 5, 2003
  8. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    Accomplishing His purpose is the thing that gives Him the most glory. If He chooses to deliver someone from their circumstances of suffering, then He is accomplishing His perfect purpose by their deliverance. If He chooses to uphold someone so that they endure in the faith while suffering, and are sanctified through it, then He is accomplishing His perfect purpose by leaving them in their suffering.

    So in those circumstances when God chooses to deliver us from suffering, He is most glorified by our deliverance. And when God chooses to teach us through endurance in suffering, then He is most glorified by our continued suffering.
     
    #8 russell55, Sep 5, 2003
  9. micahaaron

    micahaaron New Member

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    Accomplishing His purpose is the thing that gives Him the most glory. If He chooses to deliver someone from their circumstances of suffering, then He is accomplishing His perfect purpose by their deliverance. If He chooses to uphold someone so that they endure in the faith while suffering, and are sanctified through it, then He is accomplishing His perfect purpose by leaving them in their suffering.

    So in those circumstances when God chooses to deliver us from suffering, He is most glorified by our deliverance. And when God chooses to teach us through endurance in suffering, then He is most glorified by our continued suffering.     </font>[/QUOTE]Using your above paragraph as the stepping stone, we christians between Pentecost and the day of Jesus's return, what should our heart desires more, to earnestly desire to be delivered or suffer in faith?
    My personal bias is that since deliverance is available, do that to give God glory, but that's just me.
    MA
     
    #9 micahaaron, Sep 6, 2003
  10. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    We should desire whichever is God's will for us in our circumstances, whichever accomplishes His purpose for us.

    Scripture promises that whatever we ask according to His will--or in His name, which really means more or less the same thing--we will have it. Having what we ask from our heavenly Father involves attuning our will to His, being sensitive to His purposes in our lives.

    Paul (as mentioned above) is an example of this. He prayed 3 times for his "thorn in the flesh" to be removed, and then came to understand through the guidence of the Spirit that God had a purpose for leaving him with his infirmity--that his "thorn in the flesh" kept him humble and so made him more Christ-like.

    Yet when Paul was imprisoned, He was certain that He would be delivered because He understood that God had more work for him. He understood that he would "remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith." In accordance with his understanding of God's purpose in this situation, he urged the Philippians to pray for his deliverance from prison.

    Desiring whatever is God's will in our circumstances requires us being in step with the Spirit, who is always interceding for us according to God's will for us.
     
    #10 russell55, Sep 6, 2003
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