Suicide and does it guarantee....

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jkdbuck76, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    64
    In the wake of the suicide of Robin Williams, a Pentecostal preacher I know posted on Facebook that suicide guarantees ONE thing: a front row seat in the Lake of Fire!

    Why do people believe this? Do they think that we have to keep our score card on sins so that we're "current" on our sin account? In other words, even though I "got saved", I'm still in danger of eternal damnation if I don't ask for forgiveness of each and every little sin?

    Also, do you think suicide results in hell?
     
  2. matt wade

    matt wade
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    76
    If you are saved, nothing you can do can send you to hell. John 10:28 gives us assurance that we can't lose our salvation.
     
  3. Use of Time

    Use of Time
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    98
    Sheesh, I think it is pretty tacky to put that out there less than 24 hours after his death. Salvation isn't a moving target we chase.
     
  4. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank you.
    Robin W may not have ever professed belief in Christ but it behooves us to respect the grief of those who love him.
     
  5. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,971
    Likes Received:
    128
    I've known a few people who committed suicide and some others that have tried to commit suicide.

    One felt trapped by a situation of his own making.
    Another felt trapped by his own and others expectations of himself.
    Others were deeply depressed and it was their way of calling out for help.

    I feel sorry for some, angry at others. Such a waste!

    It shows impatience and a lack of trust in God.
    It shows that you are not satisfied with what he has given you.
    It shows that you care only for yourself without any mind for the others who care for you.

    No, suicide doesn't condemn one to hell but they miss out on so many blessings that God had prepared for them.

    Rob
     
  6. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    64
    Regarding the timing of the statement: I thought the same thing.... I looked in my FB news feed and saw it early this morning. I thought "that was awfully quick for him to say something about suicide."

    But it also occurs to me: how miserable life must be if chasing salvation like a target. No blessed assurance. Salvation depends upon MY ability to keep my account with God squared up. When I hear stuff like that, I cringe.

    Now, if you guys are saying that my posting this is too soon, then I apologize.
     
    #6 Jkdbuck76, Aug 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2014
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,558
    Likes Received:
    273
    Samuel told Saul that he would be joining him where he was the day before he committed suicide:

    15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
    16 And Samuel said, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing Jehovah is departed from thee, and is become thine adversary?
    17 And Jehovah hath done unto thee, as he spake by me: and Jehovah hath rent the kingdom out of thy hand, and given it to thy neighbor, even to David.
    18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of Jehovah, and didst not execute his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath Jehovah done this thing unto thee this day.
    19 Moreover Jehovah will deliver Israel also with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: Jehovah will deliver the host of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines 1 Sam 28

    I take that to mean the waiting place of the righteous, not hell.
     
  8. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    After reading your many posts here on BB I am assured you believe this.
     
  9. Use of Time

    Use of Time
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,327
    Likes Received:
    98
    No, you are good. I was referencing the facebook post not your thread topic.
     
  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unfortunately I've known some who have become so depressed and in such despair they've committed suicide.
     
  11. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    He was raised an Episcopalian
     
  12. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,971
    Likes Received:
    128
    Some believe the phrase simply means Saul and his sons will join him in death.

    Rob
     
  13. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    No better time to discuss it than when people are dealing with it.

    I was taught as a child that suicide sends you to he'll. no, I do not believe it. The reason we were given was because life is a gift and we cannot choose to take it away, nor can we ask forgiveness after if we do. It leaves us unrepentant murderers, and the verse about murderers and such was pulled out (of context) and used as proof. Of all the things I've forgotten, I still remember this from when I was seven years old. It struck fear in me then, but also doubt. I didn't think the people in that place would lie, so it didn't make sense to me why I didn't quite believe them.

    Now I know why I do not. The only I forgiven sin is disbelief, ie blasphemy. The rest, we are all guilty of most of them in some form, but believers are forgiven in heaven for sins past, present and future. Of course disbelief is the sin that is unforgiven. You aren't a believer without it, and only believers are forgiven and become heirs.

    I still wouldn't want to take a chance because I don't like surprises. There's always that off chance that the greeting angel might be really bored that day with giving the newbie speeches and would make me the first human to go back and relive all over again from birth.

    Or I could just be wrong. I almost feel guilty for just THAT concept being enough to make the idea of suicide quite unappealing. Williams must have been in a very dark place.
     
  14. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    I know a pastor in Virginia who committed suicide.
     
  15. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    If Saul committed suicide, did he have a choice? He was going to be punished with death. Protection had already been taken away. David was going to be King. So how would it have been a choice?

    However...was it really suicide? He was already severely injured. "Sore wounded of the archers." Sounds like he wanted things finished before the enemy could extract info from him or try to use him as a pawn. If anything, it sounds like a noble move rather than a desire to go. He didn't even want to go by his own hand. He asked his armor dude to kill him before the bad guys got to him.
     
  16. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,466
    Likes Received:
    138
    Agreed....

    For the believer, who has had their name written in the shed blood of Jesus in the Lamb's Book of life, nothing can separate them from God, even suicide. I believe suicide is an emotional disease, and if God doesn't exclude those who die of physical disease entrance to heaven, why would he deny the victim of suicide entrance to heaven?

    I know where the Pentecostal guy gets his frame of thought, and it comes from Judas taking his life. Could it be that among the twelve who followed Jesus, Judas was the one who did not understand a relationship by salvation, and when he took his life, he took it as an unsaved, a tool of the devil? We know during that first communion, that Jesus told Judas to depart and do what he must do, quickly. Some scholars believe that at that moment, Satan entered Judas and had complete control of the man who betrayed the Lord.

    I agree with Matt completely on this. Besides, if our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, we must never forget that when it comes to the Book of Life, God does not have access to:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  17. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,456
    Likes Received:
    93
    In a class about 25 years ago, this was the subject of discussion, and some seemed to give credence to the doctrine of Catholics and others that suicide results in hell because you cannot repent from such a sin in this life. I made the suggestion that if you are going to do it, then, don't put the gun to your head and pull the trigger; instead jump off a very tall building and repent and ask forgiveness on the way down. This actually seemed to produce some changing effect on them, even though I meant it as a half-joke (yeah, I've been doing that for a long time).

    But the tall building method wouldn't, or shouldn't, have any effect on Catholics, if they believe they must confess to a priest. When the Titanic was going down, there was a priest who was frantically going from one group to another, among those trapped on the sinking liner, to ask if they wished to confess anything.

    Personally, I think the idea that suicide is the-- of 'one of,' if you can possibly get that out of scripture-- unforgivable sin(s), comes from the use of religion as a controlling force at the side of, or in direct correspondence with, government. Certainly this easily explains the Catholic position, as the predominant and almost only religion in western Europe, to keep peasants from killing themselves to escape their miserable lives so they will be there to do the 'dirty work' for those whose purpose is to control-- kings, nobles, wealthy merchants.... and clergy.
     
  18. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    60
    Today my pastor told me this:at this point in time, Hell and Paradise were right next to eachother, note Luke 16 how the Rich Man and Abraham were able to converse, It's possible Saul went to the Hell side and that Samuel might not have meant that he would go to Paradise.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,080
    Likes Received:
    49
    Not if the person was really saved, as he will be explaining to Jesus why he took his own life....

    Either the blood of Christ covers and paid for all sins, or it did not...

    is suicide a viabl option for a Christian though?

    NO, as the Lord himself decides how and when he wants us to die...
     
  20. corndogggy

    corndogggy
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    This is a bunch of crap. You've obviously never really been near that point. I have. I remember at one point sitting in church and could think of nothing else other than the most efficient way to off myself, going so far as to devising backup plans in case the first method failed, such as shooting myself while standing on a chair with a noose around my neck. Even if I missed and blew half my face off, the noose wouldn't. It was a very dark time that was very full of pain. My health problems wore me down in the most extreme way. It was horrible. To make things worse, even when I cried out for help, nobody was there.

    Looking back, it really irks me when folks like you with a superiority complex dismisses the plight of such people as trivial selfishness. People shouldn't speak evil of the things they don't understand. (2 Peter 2:12)
     

Share This Page

Loading...