SUNDAY SCHOOL TROUBLE MAKERS

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by SAVED4LIFE, Aug 2, 2002.

  1. SAVED4LIFE

    SAVED4LIFE
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    There has been a lady coming to our church in recent months who always seems to have a "different" way of interpreting our lesson in Sunday school class. It's almost as though she is trying to get controversy started, but I'm not sure if it's just that, or if she might be a little "off" mentally.

    Anyway, last week she out of the blue, says "Wouldn't it be just as good to take the youth out fishing on Sunday mornings than to have them sit in Sunday School class, as long as we talked about Jesus?" The pastor joins our class and he answered her by saying that there is a time and place for everything and Sunday morning is to be for learning and worship and fishing could be done at another time. And he also added that taking the youth fishing once or twice a year wouldn't be a big deal, but every Sunday certainly would.

    What do you think? Do you think that if you enjoyed golfing, for instance, and went golfing every Sunday morning and in the meantine, witnessed to others on the golf course, that you would be pleasing God?

    My answer to the lady was that I come to Sunday services to learn and to worship, and for me to think that I was so "OK" that I didn't have to come because my time could be better spent "in the world" spreading the good news, would be wrong. I don't think I'll ever have it all down pat, not do I think that I'll ever be so perfect that I won't need church anymore.
     
  2. Robert J Hutton

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    Warm Christian greetings!

    Hebrews 10 v 25 is crystal clear; we should not absent from fellowshipping with the Lord's people on "the first day of the week" unless there is a very, very good reason. Playing golf or fishing hardly constitutes such a reason.

    Kind regards

    Robert J Hutton
     
  3. Ruht

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    I think the Christian who is led to go to a "church" on Sunday morning, should, and the one who isn't, shouldn't. For it is God who worketh in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    The church is not a building, but the entire collective body of believers, and we are "assembling" even in this forum. Hebrews doesn't mention how often to assemble, or even on which day, but rather actually simply confirms that such a thing is OK to do, if we please. For if a Christian just "assembles" even one time with other Christians throughout his life, he has fulfilled Hebrews 10:25. And it doesn't tell us how to assemble, either.

    Let us not judge those who go to a "church" on Sunday, nor those who don't, but rather let us just be thankful for the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and let not us be entangled again in the yoke of bondage. For he that goeth to church on Sunday does it unto the Lord, and he that does not go to church on Sunday does it unto the Lord, if both of their consciences are clear. For why is the liberty of one so judged by another man's conscience.

    I will love my brother who goes to church on Sunday, and I will love my brother who goes fishing on Sunday. And I will praise and thank the Lord that they are both my brothers through Christ.

    God bless.
     
  4. Don

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    Acts 11:26 ...And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

    I humbly submit that the Bible does, indeed, give us some guidelines as to when and how often to meet.

    How many times, do you suppose, it would take meeting out on the golf course before you finished the eighteenth hole and realized you hadn't said a word about God?

    Personally, don't give God half of anything. If you're gonna golf, then golf. But if you're gonna fellowship and praise God and worship God, then fellowship and praise and worship God.
     
  5. BrianT

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    I'm not really opposed to having "Sunday School" outside of the church building. It is not the location, but the gathering/teaching/fellowship that's important. How many times did Jesus do his teaching in a classroom, or even the temple in general? Not many. It was usually outside somewhere: a field, a mount, the market, a lake. In fact, there are several times he taught when his listeners were (you guessed it) "fishing". ;)

    I think it's a good idea. You might even get more people coming to listen. ;)

    Brian

    [ August 02, 2002, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]
     
  6. Ruht

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    It does? Where does it say to meet every Sunday morning in a building? Also, is Acts saying that they were assembled together 24/7 during that "whole year?"

    The Bible gives us no explicit guidelines on Christian "assembly," but rather leaves it up to the liberty of the individual's conscience. I think Brian has made a very excellent point in how Christ ministered in the great outdoors on numerous occasions, even while "fishing."

    Each Christian is blessed with his/her own "ministry" and gifts, and if some do not have the will to assemble on a weekly basis inside of a building with stained glass windows, pews and a baptismal, then I have to once again meditate on Philippians 2:13, which states:

    "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." - Philippians 2:13

    Therefore when I think of a born again Christian not attending such a building on a weekly basis, from sincerely lacking the will to do so, then I have to trust the Lord that his will for such a child is in something and somewhere else.

    God bless, and great points, Brian.
     
  7. Helen

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    Look at it from another direction. If you are out on the golf course Sunday morning, what does that say about your sense of priorities in life to those who know where you are? And I submit that when you are involved in a sport you are paying attention to that sport.

    Going to church is a privilege and we don't often see it that way here in the West. The very question about whether or not to go to church on Sunday morning would shock many other Christians around the world who risk things just by attending a Christian meeting anytime. What they wouldn't give to be in our shoes and have the option of going to church without being arrested or fired EVERY week! And maybe twice a week.

    We are so spoiled.

    We have the rest of the week to witness. Our lives are supposed to be a witness. That should occupy our entire lives -- Jesus should be in control of the way we dress, live, speak, think -- everything. But one morning a week we have the incredible privilege of joining our brothers and sisters in Christ for a time of fellowship, praise, learning, praying, -- all in honor of the Lord and to the Lord. There is NOTHING that can replace that.

    We ought to treat going to church like the incredible privilege it is and quit trying to find excuses not to go. Go play golf on Saturday. Witness then. Play tennis Tuesday after work. Witness then. Go shopping Wednesday. Witness then. Have dinner with friends Friday. Witness then.

    Go to church Sunday. The day is the Lord's. Don't make a mockery of it.
     
  8. BrianT

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    Hi Helen,

    I basically agree, but I was not really talking about witnessing, I was talking about having Sunday School somewhere other than a stuffy classroom. Keeping the fellowship, praise, learning, praying, etc, just the possibility of doing it elsewhere. [​IMG]

    So is gathering for religious reasons in public places. ;)

    Brian

    [ August 02, 2002, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]
     
  9. Ruht

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    Who are we "witnessing" to in "church" on a Sunday morning? more Christians? Will the people on the "golf course" be able to see and hear those in the churches while they are on the golf course?

    I don't think God wants us to go to a so-called "church" under duress. I personally do not want anyone trying to make me feel guilty about not going to some church in the way some other Christian thinks I should go, nor do I want to make anyone else feel guilty for not living up to my preferences.

    We are free in the Lord. We are saved by grace, not by works, and going to a building on a regular basis doesn't save anyone nor insure the continual salvation of anyone. I think it a great testimony to tell a lost world that salvation is free, that one does not have to go to church to be saved or to stay saved. I can't help believe that people would rather hear about the Christ of grace, than the Christ of rules and regulations and religiosity and all the other things that drive decent people to the golf course in the first place.

    I can witness to someone just fine on the golf course or in a building with stained glass windows, and I don't believe the hands of God are tied in either place, nor will I let anyone tie mine.

    God bless.
     
  10. Clint Kritzer

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    Hello Mr. Hutton -

    I am in agreement that the assembly should not be forsaken, however, the verse which you quote says nothing about the first day of the week.

    This is in reference to the Day of Judgement, not a specific day of the week.

    Not completely on topic but I did not want to let that slide by without comment.
     
  11. Rosa

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    Forgive me if I don't address the issue of wheather or not you should attend Sunday School.
    As to the Lady in Sunday School class who has differing idea's I do have a suggestion or two. Sometimes the Good Lord sends people our way to help us learn something. Sometimes what the Lord is trying to teach you is not the Sunday School lesson book. Sometimes He is trying to teach you how to be loving and accepting of people who think outside the bounds of what we might not consider normal. Sometimes the Good Lord is sending a lesson on patience. Sometimes He is using us to help others follow His line of thinking and not their own. Be open to the lessons that the Good Lord send's your way. Blessings come in the strangest packages.
     
  12. Helen

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    Yes Ruht, I know we are saved by grace. That was never the issue.

    Nor is church for witnessing to the world. It is for us together, as Christians, AWAY from the world. Just for a bit of time. A time to quietly focus on the Lord with our brothers and sisters in Christ.

    You want Sunday morning? Saturday morning? Wednesday night? Choose your own, but go.

    We human beings are such ornery critters, aren't we? The minute we are supposed to do something, we prefer ANYTHING else.

    What if you were supposed to work and not go to church. Think what a privilege it would be then.

    Or suppose you had a profoundly retarded child of 17 who was still in diapers and there was no place to put him when you went to church; and he didn't quit singing -- loudly -- when the hymns ended. So you stayed home most Sunday mornings.

    It's a privilege to gather with others in the Lord's name. It's a privilege to hear an educated man of God preach from the Bible. It's a privilege to have a retreat from the world for a short time each week.

    I wish you knew; you wouldn't take it so lightly.
     
  13. Abiyah

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    Personally, I believe that our going to our places
    of worship IS a testimony. I just moved into my
    neighborhood in December, and while I recog-
    nized that I could not immediately go out and
    meet each neighbor, telling them that I am a
    believer, what I do does tell them.

    Seriously, I do my yard as a testimony for Him,
    although that "testimony" is a bit yellowed
    right now. We gave fruit from our trees and
    vines away as a testimony. And when I dress
    up and go out of my home three times every
    weekend, it is a testimony.

    Believe me, the neighbors watch, and they see.
    Before I can tell them, they know! And when
    one of them tells me about someone who is
    sick, or another problem, and I respond, "I will
    pray," they are not in the least surprised.

    When you park your car at your place of wor-
    ship, it is a testimony to all driving by. They will
    note both the abundance and the lack of vehi-
    cles. When you speak to the others there, it is
    a testimony--it is saying, "I find this an impor-
    tant place to be, assembling myself with the
    others who love our Lord."

    I think it only takes one thought turned toward
    those who cannot attend as they would like,
    whether it is a physical, financial, or a politi-
    cal problem that hinders them, to make us
    want to go and to appreciate what we in this
    country, and some others, have been so freely
    given. Should we ever lose these privileges, we
    will certainly look back on our negative attit-
    udes with disdain.

    Ccertainly, this had better not be out only
    testimony for our Lord, but it should be one
    among many.
     
  14. donnA

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    A christian who does not go to church on Sundays(or any other day), can not ive in God's will, so no it is not ok. If you are a christian, you are commanded to join with others to worship publically, you do not have the right to choose not too. That is if you want to live a life pleasing to God in His will.
     
  15. rlvaughn

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    One important aspect of "church" is that is an assembly of baptized believers to which we voluntary gather. That is, someone is not forcing us to go, but we have chosen, by the leadership of the Spirit, to enter into a covenanted relationship with a body of brothers and sisters. If we are sincere, then we should honor that commitment. It's not about whether the Bible means we must meet every Sunday in a building or under a shed and at 9:30 or 10:00 a.m. It's about placing our support, our strength, our prayers, our gifts, etc. into that to which we claim to be committed. So if your body of believers with which you regularly gather chooses to have Sunday School at the church house on Sunday morning, then you generally ought to be there to support it. If this body consistently makes decisions you cannot support, then you should find another place where you can cast in your support freely. I do not mean to imply that we will always agree with everything that is done by our church.
     
  16. Ruht

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    Yes, and it's a "privilege" when it's not forced upon us, or used as a tool to try and make someone feel guilty for not worshipping and/or "assembling" in the same way or ways of another.

    How many in here think of this forum as a form of Christian "assembly?"

    If I saw a group of believers who were unhappy, burdened, and bored by being in a Sunday School room at some local church on a Sunday morning while trying to fulfill some tradition not necessarily ordained by God, suddenly come alive and joyous and at ease by instead spending their Sunday mornings together at a "golf course" or some other place they preferred, I would rather see then at the latter.

    Christ said to one of the thieves on the cross: "today you shall be with me in paradise," and I'm sorry but I find it difficult to believe that "paradise" is a place where people fall asleep in pews while wearing stuffy clothes and fake smiles.

    And Rosa, your insight was very inspiring.

    God bless.
     
  17. Ruht

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    Katie, is a building where Christians gather at times the "church," or is the church the collective body of believers? And if the church is the collective body of believers (which it is), and not the building where some happen to gather at times, then how can a Christian ever not be in the church?

    God hangs no such burden on the necks of his children, for his yoke is easy, his burden is light. Traditions of men, on the other hand, have had a historical tendency to come against the liberty and grace of God, because of self-righteous vanity.

    All saved are always and forever within the church of God, and all are in constant fellowship through the Holy Spirit. Praise God for those who bless and are blessed within the walls of church buildings, and praise God for those who bless and are blessed outside of those walls.

    For God's Spirit and purpose cannot be contained nor limited by mere man.

    Thank you, Lord, for your Spirit within the cathedrals made with human hands, and thank you, Lord, for your Spirit within the cathedrals made with your hands.

    Halleluiah.

    God bless.
     
  18. Bro. Curtis

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    "And Jesus spoke to his people....wait a miniute, I got a bite!!! Get that net!!!"

    Get real folks. Go to church Sunday morning, go fishing the rest of the week.
     
  19. Sherrie

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    Wouldn't going to church be praying, singing praises. reading scripture, praying, singing praises.. as a congregation of being one. Like husband and wife as one spirit. Learning would be the rest of the week. A witness to this would be giving God all the Glory...Honor....and Praise. Thanking Him for all that He has created, and Thanking Him for His Son Jesus Christ who died on the cross for us...and for His Holy Spirit. Lifting up our fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus...Giving them strength and comfort. Anointing the sick and praying together over them. Rejoicing and singing out...overwhelmed and lapping in His wonderous love. Humbled at His feet....asking mercy....asking that His will be revealed to us...that we would know what to do.

    That would be church...and that can be done inside or outside. But not fishing or golfing. True worship will be totally concentrated on God. Holy...Holy...Is His name.
     
  20. Doc Yankum

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    I have an ex-brother in law who was once faithful in attending Sunday School and church. He told me recently that he could go to the creek bank and commune with nature and observe God's creation and feel as close to God as he could in church. My response was that his reasons for not attending was a cop out for his lack of fellowship with God. Perhaps this is true for some of you non attenders who want to play golf or fish. When I meet with my brothers and sisters in Christ in my place of refuge I am stengthened and encouraged that I can withstand the devils temptations until Wednesday night. I don't think I could get that kind of spiritual sustenance on the golf course or on the creek bank.

    By the way Ruht, we are not led to go to church. That is a Christian duty. I nor anyone else who has exercised this duty, has ever got up on Sunday Morning and sat around waiting for God to lead him to go to church.

    I also do not consider this web site as assembling ourselves together. This is a great site and I enjoy it and have learned from it, but not to the extent of it replacing church.
     

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