Sunday Shopping!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by SouthernBoy, May 8, 2005.

  1. SouthernBoy

    SouthernBoy
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    Why aren't there more sermons on not shopping on Sundays? This also includes going to Resturants.
     
  2. hamricba

    hamricba
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    I think one of the reasons is because there are few NT texts (that come to mind, anyway) where direct application can be made.

    Also, I wonder if dispensationalism has any form of Sabbath observance to it (other than corporate worship).
     
  3. Ben W

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    Ultimatley, alot of churches are preaching that the Ten Commandments are not to be kept today, and that we are saved by grace without keeping the Commandments of God.

    My take on that is when you are born again, which commandments of God do people want to break anyway.

    In any event, maybe you would be interested to have a look at the history of the Sabbath? My church the Seventh Day Baptist Church have quite a number of good articles to share.

    http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/
     
  4. hamricba

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    Ben W,

    I bet your church doesn't preach against shopping on Sundays =)
     
  5. hamricba

    hamricba
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    A dispensationalist friend of mine has noted that 9 of the 10 commandments are restated in some way, shape, or form in the NT... the one that is omitted is Sabbath-keeping.

    Ben, do you keep the whole Jewish law in Leviticus? My understanding is that grammatically one cannot separate out the commandments from the ordinances- they are a package deal. I'm not smart enough to make the argument here, though.

    Being saved by grace does enable one for obedience. The question is what commands APPLY to the New Testament church? Should we be putting homosexuals to death? The key is to understand Scripture in context.
     
  6. Ben W

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    No I do not keep the whole Jewish law [​IMG]

    As I see it, the idea of having the Sabbath, was given to all peoples including the Gentiles, well before the formation of Israel or the Jewish Law in Gen 2:3
     
  7. Eric B

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  8. BobRyan

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    Ahh now here comes a moment of enlightenment!

    Your question "presupposes" Sabbath. That is a problem for many Christians for many reasons.

    #1. Many Christians had hoped that the Ten commandments are dead - so any "appeal" to Sabbath-based "keeping" even if switched to "Sunday" is not applicable.

    #2. OTher Christians are happy to re-invent (so as to retain) God's Ten Commandments as the trusty-and-conveniently-downsized NINE commandments. Where the inconvenient 4th is missing.
    So again arguing from a missing 4th -- is not applicable.

    #3. Those who do actually KEEP God's Ten commandments in the Bible (so no scissors) -- will note that the Sabbath commandment has never been Sunday. Not even in the NT. They will see no reason to apply Christ the Creator's Creation-Sabbath restrictions to mans traditions about Sunday (the first day).


    That just leaves ONE group left. Those who STILL accept God's Ten Commandment BUT reserve the right "to edit" them as man's traditions may dictate. THAT group would in fact make your argument that man's-editing has TRANSFERRED an IN TACT 4th commandment set of obligations TO Sunday.

    This is the position your question "presupposes" but you will get opposition to it from those in categories 1-3 above.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. BobRyan

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    From the responses so far - we have heard from those who do accept the 10 commandments "asis" (Ben W-- and I) and we have heard from those who see them as "downsized-for-the-better) in the NT.

    My question is for SouthernBoy. Does your church teach that they are still valid BUT edited such that number 4 has all of its authority and practice "transferred" and conferred upon "Creation-week-day-ONE"??

    Surely you are not thinking that Week-day-One was ever given by God as "The Seventh-day" of Creation week right? OR do you think Christ was raised "on the Seventh day of the week" and that day happens to be "Sunday??"

    What is the teaching of your church?
     
  10. Alcott

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    Cause there ain't nuthin in scripture 'bout it.
     
  11. Eric B

    Eric B
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    I do not transfer the Sabbath to Sunday.
     
  12. Monergist

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    Because modern evangelicals have forsaken the law of God under some strange notion that the antithesis of law is grace...

    Rather than the biblical teaching that the antithesis of law is sin.
     
  13. Eric B

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    But the Law only points out sin; and no one can keep it (even after salvation). That's why it seems it's antithesis is grace, (even as the NT uses it).
     
  14. Alcott

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    What does this have to do with 'Sunday shopping?'
     
  15. Monergist

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    Because it is a violation of the law of God. This is a day to be set aside for worship to God.

    I have worked in retail before and been forced to work on Sunday and not be able to worship. I noticed that most of the customers were dressed in their Sunday clothes. It's unfortunate that such thoughtless disobedience prevents others from being able to keep the day set aside for God.

    BTW, I have repented of my own disregard for God's commandment, and will not work in such a position again that causes me to sin this way.
     
  16. hillclimber

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    Yes that is right. Paul did it.
    I bought my wifes last car on Sunday. After Church.
     
  17. Eric B

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    Because it is a violation of the law of God. This is a day to be set aside for worship to God.

    I have worked in retail before and been forced to work on Sunday and not be able to worship. I noticed that most of the customers were dressed in their Sunday clothes. It's unfortunate that such thoughtless disobedience prevents others from being able to keep the day set aside for God.

    BTW, I have repented of my own disregard for God's commandment, and will not work in such a position again that causes me to sin this way.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Since you are advocating "Law" and a literal "sabbath", then by what authority do you switch from the seventh day to the first day? This is precisely what fuels the sabbath movement. You have "edited" the Law as Bob puts it, so how can you accuse "modern evangelicals" of "forsaking" it? You apparently believe the spirit of the sabbath somehow transfers to Sunday; so likewise, others believe the spirit of it transfers not to another day, but to spiritual rest in Christ. If you insist on literal rest, then the only day that was even reserved for that in the Bible was the 7th day; never Sunday; resurrection or not; a meeting or two mentioned, or not.
     
  18. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    If we do what the following scripture says, then we will be keeping all ten commandments!!

    Matthew 22-37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


    It does not matter whether you shop on sunday or not!!

    The important thing is, don't shop on saturday, The Sabbath!!

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam
     
  19. Monergist

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    Start here: The Perpetuity And Change Of The Sabbath
     
  20. Eric B

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    That link uses the standard argument about the collections for the saints, 1 Cor.16:2. But that is so ambiguous as a proof for Sunday. I have even seen sabbathkeepers take that as proof of the seventh day. It says "lay by HIM IN STORE (this is basically the same as "store up for yourselves treasures), so that WHEN I COME...", not "put it in a collection plate in your weekly Church service". So the sabbathkeepers will say that Sunday was just an ordinary day, that people were to begin storing their own gift (translated "gathering") that would be "collected" in the 7th day sabbath service at the end of the week. I think others have argued that if the money was being collected on Sunday, that shows it was not a rest day.
    The Edwards sermon also throws in Acts 20:7, but that was simply one day mentioned in passing. 2:46 shows that the Church meetings were not fixed to any day of the week.
    The sermon dismisses the demand for "Express commands" (as do the Sabbathkeepers), but I'm sorry, for it to be so impratant that evangelicalism is to be castigated for "neglecting" it, it must be more clear than that. God is very clear on what is important to Him. Unless, of course, one can always take the "God has given us such understandings, that we are capable of receiving a revelation, when made in another manner [besides express revelation]" argument to mean that God makes it cloudy to hide it from those He is reprobating to damnation, so that only the elect will understand it. But then this becomes esoteric, and not only various cults use this "other manner", but both Catholics and rabbinic Judaism identify this "other means" as "oral tradition"; which leads them to add works to salvation, with one turning the ordinancs into mystic rituals that have salvific power in themselves, and the other to reject Christ and the Christian understanding of scripture altogether. I'm sorry, but this method of interpretation is how the RCC went off the deep end (and justified it), and why there are thousands of differing groups now. (and at least the 7th day advocates can argue that it was eternal in the OT and thus carried over that way. That is far stronger than these other "manners").

    And then the sermon says "But this is an absurd way of interpreting the command, as it refers to Christians. For if the command be so far abolished, it is entirely abolished. For it is the very design of the command, to fix the time of worship. The first command fixes the object, the second the means, the third the manner, the fourth the time" (which would negate their changing of it), but then reasons that the Israelites did not originally know which day was which, so "just any one day in seven" does not contradict the command. (Sunday is the first day only by "Jewish reckoning"). But at the first commanding of the Sabbath in Ex.16, God does not say to just pick any day to begin their week. The week was already known about, and thus already acknowledged by most of mankind (as I think the sermon even mentions somewhere), though a particular one of those days was not until then commanded to be "kept".

    then, it quotes one part of Isaiah (ch.56) to prove that the sabbath would be kept in the new dispensation. But then he takes the "the former should not be remembered" in another chapter (65) to prove that the day would be changed. But once again; if you use one passage to take it as literal and eternal; then the other does not apply to it. It cannot be "former". But if it is apart of "the former things", then maybe that includes its entire application; changing from literal to spiritual! One or the other. It stands or falls together.
    And since he has not even satisfactorily proven that the new day would be Sunday, he has proven nothing. This is trying to one's cake and eat it too.
    BINGO! They ALl are "summaries" of the entire law! That is why "if you break one, you break them all". Hence,
    The true commandments are the TWO. The ten hung on them, and then the 613 hung on those! Detail commandments can change ("do not shop on the sabbath" is not even mentioned there), as all will acknowledge that many have in fact been dropped. But the whole spirit of the Law does not pass.

    It is evident here that the advocates of both days are trying to one-up each other, and everyone else who keeps no days, and prove they are more obedient than everyobody. This is not that the Gospel is about, but is part of our carnal nature; which violates the spirit of the Law!
     

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