Sunday Shopping!

You are welcome! This topic shows a geniune interest to honor God in all that we do and I am glad to see it posted here.

In Christ,

Bob

 

http://www.cemnetwork.com/btw/btwcurrentprograms.php

 

Recognized today as Law by whom? Only #6-9 are part of any civil law.

Hebrews 4 clearly explains that Jesus is our Sabbath and to rest in Him. Rules about observing the Sabbath, which is a Saturday, were for the Jewish nation. To honor the Sabbath is ultimately to trust in (rest in) Christ. The Sabbath pointed to Christ.

And for those of you non-SDA people agreeing with Bob, if you think we should observe the Sabbath, then it should be Saturday, which is what Bob believes. Not Sunday, which is the Lord's Day.

 

1. As Moody points out - the Ten Commandments are still recognized as Law.

2. Our own national Supreme Court has the Ten Commandment symbol engraved all over it. (on the doors, on the interior walls and on the building's exterior).

3. As Paul points out in Eph 6 - the Ten commandments remain as a unit whose FIRST commandment WITH a promise is Honor your Father and Mother.

As James points out in James 2 - the unit remains so that breaking one is breaking all.

4. Hebrews 4 does not say "Jesus is our Sabbath". But if you have a quote from it saying that - please quote it.

If it can be shown that Adam was "pointed to the Messiah" as he observed the seventh-day of creation week - a memorial of creation week - then show it.

5. Having said that - I think that the spiritual rest that we have in salvation is certainly required to keep Sabbath "Holy". Adam did not need it since he was CREATED Holy, sinless and in perfect harmony with Christ the Creator.

6. Can you find even one text in all of scripture that says "The Seventh-day IS the Sabbath"?? (I think I can).

Can you find even ONE text in all of scripture that says "The First day is the Lord's Day"??
(I have not been able to do that - maybe you can)

In Christ,

Bob

 

Marcia - BTW - I take it that you consider Moody to be wrong in his statement about the Ten Commandments and in his statement about the 4th commandment.

True?

In Christ,

Bob

 

What does Sunday have to do with the Sabbath. We are never commanded to keep Sunday holy, to set it aside for worship.

If those who teach such poor interpretation of the scriptures want to be consistent, they ought to ask "Why do people shop on Saturday " After all, the commandments in play here refer to the Seventh Day.

Sunday is a day that has been instituted to rejoice in the resurrection. It is the time when most churches call the body together for worship, following the clear NT practice. It is NOT the sabbath. I see nothing wrong with any activity done on Sunday provided that you do set aside the time when your particular church body worships. Its not about blowing off the evening service so you can spend more time on the boat, or sleeping in and catching the last 40 min of the morning service, those behaviors I have a problem with. But going to a restaruant (and having less "work" to do) would seem to me to be just as honoring to the false sabbath as making sure you tithe from your herb garden, only driving 2.1 miles to church, and burning the roast on an altar in the backyard instead of in the crock pot.

Paul makes it very clear to the Colossians who were being harrassed by judaizers

"And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." -Col. 2:15-17

 

What do you think about his position on this commandment?

What do you think about his position on the Ten Commandments?

What do you think about his "literal" acceptance of the "creation fact"? </font>[/QUOTE]What?? No answers?

 

No argument from me on that point.

God's Law was never edited, downsized or abolished.


"Do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith??? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH God's Law" Rom 3:31.

And the reason is that far from ignoring God's Word and Law - the New Covenant actually WRITES God's LAW on the tablets of the human heart - instead of leaving it external on tablets of stone!

No wonder Moody took such a strong position on God's Ten Commandments. As a New Covenant saint - he must have had God's Law written on his heart.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Of course one day we will all share at least some part of Moody's POV --

Is 66
23 ""And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,'' says the LORD.

 

Is it okay to have another god apart from the Lord?

Is it okay to bow down and worship an image, or anything other than God?

Is it okay to take the name of the Lord in vain?

Is it okay to dishonor your parents?

Is it okay to kill?

Is it okay to commit adultery?

Is it okay to steal?

Is it okay to bear false witness against your neighbor?

Is it okay to covet that which belongs to another?

Is it okay not to remember or keep holy the day that God has told us to remember, and keep holy?

All Christians will answer the first nine questions above with a resounding no. This is because they know that the law is good, and holy, as the scriptures say. It is only the fourth commandment, that they have a problem with.

I Timothy 1 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Romans 7 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The law is good, and holy, and spiritual. There is no problem with the law, the problem is with us, we are carnal, sold under sin. It is not the law that needs to change, it is us. Jesus did not come to change the law, he came to change us. He even said this himself ( Matt 5:17-20 ). One who walks in the Spirit, obeys the law, because the law is spiritual. This is not a means of righteuosness, but rather because they have become spiritual, instead of carnal. Again, most Christians have no problem with any of this, unless you apply it to the keeping of the fourth commandment, which they refuse to acknowledge as a commandment by the Spirit.

Romans 10 1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Christ is the end of the law, as a means of righteousness. The Jews were trying to establish their own righteousness by outwardly observing the law. They thought that this was their salvation. Not understanding that all our righteousness is a s filthy rags unto God. They were ignorant of God’s righteousness, and were trying to establish their own. They did not understand that Christ was, and is the righteousness of God. For he is God, in the flesh. Only with Christ in the heart can one be righteous, only because Christ is righteous, and he is in the heart, not because of anything in, or of the sinner. This does not do away with the law, or any of the commandments. Rather it establishes them within the heart of the believer. This is the truth that most Christians do not understand, or will not acknowledge.

Romans 8 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Christ condemned sin in the flesh, by living the righteousness of the law, in our sinful flesh. He always walked in the Spirit. This was so that “ the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” It is the carnal mind that is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. Christ is our perfect example in all things pertaining to walking in the Spirit. He has left us his perfect example. He obeyed all the commandments of God, including the fourth. We should therefore do the same. Not as a means of righteousness, or salvation, but rather out of love for God, and our Savior Jesus Christ. There can be no contention on this point. Those who walk in the Spirit, will walk as Christ walked here on earth, for he was our perfect example of one who walks in the Spirit.

John 15:10 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Need I mention again, how that Christ kept all of God’s commandments, including the fourth.

The contention that exists regarding this issue, is only about one thing. The refusal of many, to accept the authority of God, and the scriptures regarding only one commandment. They refuse to remember, and keep holy, the day that God has commanded them to do so. They even refuse to follow the example of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ on this point. Ignoring the conclusive statement made by our Savior regarding the law, they choose to twist the meaning of more obscure scriptures to support their rebellion. The end of these things will not be well for them.

II Peter 3 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

God's people keep his commandments because they love him, and have faith in his son, the Lord Jesus Christ. They have accepted Christ as their personal Savior, and want to follow his example in all things.

Rev 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The last chapter, of the last book of the bible, makes it clear that those who will be saved, will love God, and obey his commandments. If we sin, we can be forgiven. If however, we will not even acknowledge our sin, as sin, we cannot be forgiven, for we will never confess. Those who keep God's commandments, and will have a right to the tree of life, will be those who have acknowledged God's authority in all of his cammandments. They may fall into temptation, but they will acknowledge their sin, and ask for forgiveness. Therefore they will recieve it.

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

If the one who sins, will not be in heaven, then none of us will be in heaven. For we have all sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. It is not those who have sinned that will not be in heaven, but rather those who would not acknowledge the truth. For, since they would not acknowledge the truth, there is nothing left for them but deception.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Hi, Bob,
1. Recognized as law by whom?

2. The Supreme Court having the 10 commandments on their walls is irrelevant to the issue, imo. They also have stuff from other religions there, including Confucious and Hammurabi. There is no law in this country that we must worship the biblical God, that we must rest on the Sabbath, that we cannot make grave images, etc. As I pointed out, only a few of the 10 commandments are actual law.

3. I am not saying the 10 commandments are meaningless; they reflect the standards of God's goodness and perfection that we can never reach. But Gal. 3 points out what the law was for:

 

4. I think the whole of Heb. 4 is talking about entering God's rest through Christ. I know there is no verse saying Christ is our Sabbath, but the rest of God is spoken of as coming to faith in Christ. Here's an article on it:
http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd25.htm

I don't think Adam knew about the Sabbath; there is no biblical passage to show he had that concept. It just says in Gen. 2 that God rested on the 7th day. God, of course, does not need to rest because he does not get tired. So this 7th day thing is alluded to later in the NT as representing God's rest in Christ.

5. But Adam sinned and still, God did not give him a law to observe the Sabbath.

6. The early Christians worshipped on the first day of the week after Christ's resurrection on that day. The Bible does not call it the Lord's Day; that's just what it's called by some Christians. Also, "Sabbath" in the Bible does not always mean the 7th day. It refers to special days honoring the Lord in many places.

Col 2.17 makes my point about some of the OT laws and observances being "a shadow of things to come" which was Christ.

Another article on the topic
http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd18.htm

 

You probably take him to be wrong because your church believes we should be worshiping on Saturday, not Sunday, and that we will receive the mark of the beast when Jesus comes back because we are not observing the Sabbath (Saturday).

I find your remarks higly ironic since the thread is " Sunday shopping."

 

I highlighted some of what Moody said - that I am in strong aggreement with - are you saying that you are surprised that I would agree with him on those points?

My question remains - do you object to his position on the Ten Commandments? On the 4th Commandment?

I can certainly re-post his statement and highlight even more areas where I agree with him. Then if you think I should not be agreeing on those points with him - let me know how that makes sense given that I am who I am.

The summary from my POV is that I agree with almost everything he says about God's TEN Commandments and almost everything he says about God's 4th commandment.

How about you?

In Christ,

Bob

 

From what I read the NT, I don't see the practice of Sabbath keeping, in fact quite the opposite. The passage in Col. quoted by both myself and Marcia makes that clear. The Practice observed in the early church is gathering on the first day of the week. However, there is no link to the Sabbath for Sunday. It is not the "new sabbath" nor is it a "Holy" day. It is merely the day chosen by early NT saints as a rememberance of the ressurection Sunday for their worship. I would absolutely agree that most who practice Seventh Day Worship are more consistent scripturally than those who link the Sabbath to Sunday, even if I disagree with both positions.

 

Colossians 2 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21(Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

In the above verses, we are warned not to be deceived through any of mans philosophy, vain deceit, the traditions of men, the rudiments of this world, ordinances, and the commandments, and doctrines of men. In verse 16 we are told to let no man judge us in regards to meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days. The last of which, is the only one that might possibly be referring to part of the ten commandments. However, since nothing else mentioned has anything to do with the ten commandments written with God's own finger, why should we assume that the Sabbaths mentioned are referring to the fourth commandment?

There are other Sabbaths in the bible that are part of the old covenant worship system which no longer exists. If Paul was referring to the Sabbath day of the fourth commandment, then he probably would have said, or of the Sabbath day, instead of the Sabbath days.

Leviticus 16 29And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you: 30For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD. 31It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you,


Lev. 23 23And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 24Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

The Sabbaths referred to in Colossians are Sabbaths in connection with the ceremonial laws. As were many holy days, meats and drinks relating to sacrifices, and new moons. When Jesus Christ was crucified, the ceremonial laws came to an end, for they were just a shadow of the true sacrifice. If, as you suggest, the ten commandments could be changed, or done away with, then the Lord Jesus Christ need not to have died for us. It is because we are sinners, that is breakers of the law, that we need to be saved. Thus Jesus had to die for us, because the law could not be changed. It is our standing with the law that needs to be changed, not the law.

Rom 14:5-6 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The above verses make no mention of the Sabbath. If they are referring to Sabbath days at all, the same can be said for them, as that said regarding Colossians 2:14-16. The rest of the chapter is talking about what to eat, and what not to eat. Also what is clean, and what is not clean to eat. Again these things are not part of the moral law, that is the ten commandments, but of the other laws applying to Israel.

Some suggest that the Sabbath was only a part of the Mosaic covenant. This is certainly not true, for the Sabbath was established at creation, before sin, and the need for any covenant.


Gen 2 1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

There is no scriptural evidence that the new testament believers observed the first day of the week in place of the seventh. There is however considerable evidence that they continued to observe the seventh.

Acts 20 6And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
7And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The above verse is no proof that the Apostles observed the first day of the week. In fact it is more likely proof that they observed the seventh day Sabbath. It says in verse six, that the apostles stayed at Troas for seven days. If this is true, then the apostles must have already been at Troas for those seven days when they came together on this first day of the week. For they were getting ready to depart on the morrow.

It is also evident that the day being spoken of as the first day of the week in these verses, is really what we consider to day, to be the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. The Jews observed a day from evening unto evening. Thus today Sabbath keepers observe the Sabbath from sunset Friday, unto sunset Saturday. If it was the first day of the week in which Paul preached until midnight, that means that he actually started preaching on sundown of the day we call Saturday. Which means that he also intended to leave on Sunday morning to travel. Thus it is likely that the seventh day Sabbath was observed by these Christians. That the Apostles stayed all day, and that Paul ended up preaching all the way till midnight before he left the next day. That is, on the first day of the week. So if the apostles stayed seven days, then they must have arrived on the first day of the week. then after observing the seventh day Sabbath together, and preaching well into the night, they left the next day, which was also the first day of the week. thus staying at Troas for seven days.

This would be consistent with Paul's manner of preaching. Observe the following.
Acts 13 14But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. 15And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. 16Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 16 13And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
14And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Acts 17 2And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 3Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Acts 18 4And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. 5And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. 6And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
7And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man’s house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue. 8And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. 9Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace: 10For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city. 11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

So, as a matter of fact, the early Christians did observe the seventh day Sabbath, including the Apostles. For they taught both the Jews, and the Gentiles on the Sabbath. Acts 18 points out that Paul did this in this one place for about a year and a half.

There was never any reason for the Apostles to tell any of the new converts about the Sabbath. They themselves observed it, and the only Holy Scriptures that existed at the time commanded it's observance. There was no question in anyone’s mind about it's observance, therefore it was not even addressed. History testifies to the fact that Sunday worship in the Christian church did not even come into existence until well after the Apostles were dead.

Some bring up the names of those who are considered by some to be church fathers, saying that they testify to the establishment of Sunday worship by the new testament church. First I must say, that after reading the writings of some of these supposed church fathers, I have determined that they certainly are not my church fathers. Secondly, they do no such thing, as give the evidence that they are suggested as giving.

The new testament church never met on the first day of the week by any kind of command from God, or any of the Apostles.

1 Corinthians 16 1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

The above verse does not command anyone to gather for a church service on the first day of the week. It only tells them to lay aside some money for the saints on that day. It is not talking about a collection when they are gathered together, but rather that each of them should lay some money aside on that day. This hardly constitutes a command to change the observance of the Sabbath from the seventh day, to the first day of the week. Nor is it any proof that the seventh day Sabbath had been abolished. Nay, but Christ himself revealed the truth about the changing of the Sabbath, or any other of the commandments of God. As though he knew, that some would claim that he changed the law, he made the following statement, and prophecy.

Matthew 5
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

In the 2nd Century

"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;..therefore the Christians for a long time together, did keep their conventions on the Sabbath, in which some portion
of the Law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." The
Whole Works of Jeremey Taylor, Vol. IX, p416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol.XII, p.416)

"The gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath." Gieseler's Church History, Vol.1,
ch.2, par.30, p.93.

"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and did spend the day
in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice
from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to that purpose."
Dialogues on the Lord's Day. p.189. London: 1701. By Dr. T. H. Morer.(church of England divine)

"The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and by keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but the command of
Jesus." Geschichte des Sonntags, pp.13,14.

"It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the
celebration of the Lord's day by the Christians of the East Church) three hundred years after the Saviour's death." A learned Treatise of the Sabbath, p.77.

In the 3rd Century.

"The seventh-day Sabbath was.. solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive
Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in a manner quite abolish the observation of it." Dissertation on the Lord's Day, pp.33,34,44.

"As early as A.D.225 their existed large bishoprics or conferences of the church of the
East (Sabbath-keeping) stretching from Palestine to India." Mingana, Early Spread of Christianity. Vol.10, p.460.

"Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the Law, not for idleness of the hands." The Anti-Nicene Fathers, Vol.7, p 413, From Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, A document of the 3rd and 4th centuries.

"After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice [the crucifixion] is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a Sabbatismus, that is a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God [Heb 4:9]" Homily on Numbers 23, par.4, in Migne, Patrologia Greaca, Vol. 12, cols.749,750.

In the 4th Century.

"It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the
west..For in the church of Millaine [Milan];.. it seemes the Saturday was held in farre esteeme ..Not that the Easterne churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme [Judaism]; but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus [Jesus] Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." History of the Sabbath (original Spelling retained) Part 2, par. 5, pp. 73,74, London: 1636, Dr. Heylyn.

"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observation of Saturday, or the seventh
day..It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival..Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assemblies on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." Antiquities of the Christian Church, Vol. II, Book XX, chap. 3, Sec. 1, 66.1137, 1138

"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364,
the holy observation of the Jew's Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many
authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it. Sunday a Sabbath,
John Ley, p.163 London 1640.

"Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan, said that when he was in Milan he observed
Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb 'When you are in Rome, do as Rome does,' " Heylyn, The History of the Sabbath, 1613

In the 5th Century.

"Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in
the Christian church." Ancient Christianity Exemplified, Lyman Coleman, Ch.26, sec. 2, p.527.

"In Jerome's day (420 A.D.) the devoutest Christians did ordinary work on Sunday."
Treatise of the Sabbath Day. by Dr. White, Lord Bishop of Ely, p.210.

"For although almost all Churches throught the world celebrate the sacred mysteries
[the Lord's Supper] on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria
and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this." The footnote
which accompanies the foregoing quotation explains the use of the word "Sabbath" It says : "That is, upon the Saturday. It should be observed, that Sunday is never called 'the Sabbath' by the ancient Fathers and historians." Sacrates, Ecclesiastical History,
Book 5, chap. 22, p. 289.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Do I agree with what you posted by Moody? Not really. I don't know what he means, either, by saying the Sabbath was "binding" in Eden.

I don't take my guidance from Moody, even though I know he is respected, so I am not really all that interested in what he said. I think he sounds legalistic in that speech. And if one were to follow it, then one would rest on Saturday.

 

The text of Constantine's Sunday Law of 321 A.D. is :
"One the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for gain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them the second time." Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; translated in History of the Christian Church, Philip Schaff, D.D., (7-vol.ed.) Vol. III, p.380. New York, 1884

Dr. A.Chr. Bang says regarding this Law :
"This Sunday law constituted no real favoratism to Christianity..... It is evident from all his statuatory provisions that the Emperor during the time 313-323 with full consciousness has sought the realisation of his religeous aim: the amalgamation of heathenism and Christianity." Kirken og Romerstaten (The Church and the Roman State) p.256. Christiania, 1879

15. In A.D. 321, to please the bishops of the Catholic Church, he issued an edict commanding judges, townspeople, and mechanics to rest on Sunday. Yet in this also his paganism was still manifest, as the edict required rest on "the venerable day of the sun," and "enjoined the observance, or rather
forbade the public desecration, of Sunday, not under the name of Sabbatum, or Dies Domini, but under its old astrological and heathen title, Dies Solis, familiar to all his subjects, so that the law was as applicable to the worshipers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, as to the Christians." - Schaff. ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 391 )

The following is from the council of Laodicea ( about 364 AD )

CANON XXIX. CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

It was during the riegn of Constantine that the adulterous form of Christianity that sought relations with, and the power of, the kings of the earth, attained their goal. The Roman Catholic church is rightly named, for she is that apostate Christain institution which first abandoned the power of the Holy Spirit, in favor of the power of the state. It was Constantine, the emperor of Rome, that the for-runners of the Catholic church gave their support to, with the intention of gaining the power of the state. Thus, the Catholic church, is the Church of Rome.

63. Then came Constantine, the best imperial representative of the new paganism, and the most devout worshiper of the sun as the supreme and universal deity, with the avowed purpose, as expressed in his own words, "First to bring the diverse judgments formed by all nations respecting the Deity to a condition, as it were, of settled uniformity." In Constantine the new paganism met its ideal, and the New Platonism - the apostate, paganized, sun-worshiping form of Christianity - met its long-wished-for instrument. In him the two streams met. In him the aspiration of Elagabalus, the hope of Ammonius Saccas and Clement, of Plotinus and Origen, and the ambition of the perverse-minded, self-exalted bishops, were all realized and accomplished -a new, imperial, and universal religion was created.
64. Therefore, "the reign of Constantine the Great forms one of the epochs in the history of the world. It is the era of the dissolution of the Roman Empire; the commencement, or rather consolidation, of a kind of Eastern despotism, with a new capital, a new patriciate, a new constitution, a new financial system, a new, though as yet imperfect, jurisprudence, and, finally, a new religion." - Milman.
65. The epoch thus formed was the epoch of the papacy; and the new religion thus created was the PAPAL RELIGION. ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 361 )

By instituting the first Sunday laws, Constantine gave the Church of Rome the power of the state. For this law commanded all, those in, and out of the faith, to observe this apostate Christian institution. In this way, the one who would think to change times and laws, obtained the power to do so. Thus began the rule of the Papacy, an institution that would go on to trample upon the individuals conscience.

At present, the church of Rome does not exercise her authority over any but her own. Indeed, she even espouses religious liberty. However, at the same time, Pope John Paul 11 pursued an almost identical course to that of Constantine's, which resulted in the establishment of the Church of Rome.

He was also pushing for unity of all faiths, Christian, and non Christian alike. The Pope himself, would naturally be the visible leader of this union when it is accomplished. At the same time also, he called for civil legislation supporting the Sunday Sabbath. The following quote is from his APOSTOLIC LETTER DIES DOMINI.

Therefore, also in the particular circumstances of our own time, Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy. In any case, they are obliged in conscience to arrange their Sunday rest in a way which allows them to take part in the Eucharist, refraining from work and activities which are incompatible with the sanctification of the Lord's Day, with its characteristic joy and necessary rest for spirit and body. (112)

If all faiths unite, and Sunday observance is decreed by law, then another apostate form of religion will have the power of the state on a world wide level. This will undoubtedly lead to the persecution of those who do not go with the flow, just as it did when the Church of Rome was established. A world wide religio-political government, forcing all to worship a certain way. Sound familiar? It should. The establishment of the Church of Rome, was the establishment of the first beast of the thirteenth chap. of the book of Revelation. The establishment of this power we are now discussing, will be the establishment of the second beast of this same chapter. The second beast will make an image to the first beast, by establishing the same day of worship, by law, that the Church of Rome did. When this law is in place, then this new apostasy will have the power of a new world wide government. This is when persecution of true Christianity will really begin again in a big way.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

My guess is that his reference to the fact that the 7th day of CREATION WEEK was actually not a secret to those alive and worshiping ON that day AT CREATION WEEK -- stems from the obvious sequence in the Genesis text where God makes it a Holy Day -- then and there AND ALSO where Christ HIMSELF references both the MAKING of Creation-week's SEVENTH day and also MANKIND saying "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not mankind for the Sabbath".

Just a wild guess.

As for your opposition to D. L. Moody -- do you also oppose all Christian leaders who at that time took the same pro-Ten-Commandment position?

In Christ,

Bob