Sunstein: Take organs from 'helpless patients'

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Revmitchell, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780
    President Obama's newly confirmed regulatory czar defended the possibility of removing organs from terminally ill patients without their permission.

    Cass Sunstein also has strongly pushed for the removal of organs from deceased individuals who did not explicitly consent to becoming organ donors.

    In his 2008 book, "Nudge: Improving Decisions about Health, Wealth and Happiness," Sunstein and co-author Richard Thaler discussed multiple legal scenarios regarding organ donation. One possibility presented in the book, termed by Sunstein as "routine removal," posits that "the state owns the rights to body parts of people who are dead or in certain hopeless conditions, and it can remove their organs without asking anyone's permission."

    More Here
     
  2. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    How sick can these people be. The state does OWN the rights to anyones body. And this horror is one of obama's people.
     
  3. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,502
    Likes Received:
    40
    Sooner or later (?) the "0"'s minions will have to acknowledge the perversity of this character!!

    For many it WILL be later - at the white throne judgment perhaps?!

    Sadly there are a lot of Christians who aren't discerning enough to see that this man is nothing more than (at best!!!) an articulate, but common Joe!
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    The OP just ain't so. Sunstein in fact advocates for reforms to the organ donation system, but not for mandatory donation. WingNutDaily, once again, lifts a quote from its context to fabricate or exaggerate a claim.

    I'm by no means an Obama supporter, but I do insist on being accurate and truthful in criticisms of him. Now, normally, this is the part where I list numerous references to counter the OP claim, but as a matter of history, folks who typically buy into stuff like the OP won't change their mind, no matter how objectively wrong they are. So why should I bother listing counterarguments? It bears no fruit, and usually ends up in a urinating contest between a small handful of posters who will choose to disregard civility to make a point.

    THerefore, I leave it to those of you who know better to research the matter for yourself.
     
  5. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    The "common Joe" does not support Obama's policies and has more respect for life than "the one" does.

    Obama is clearly an elitist that places himself above the commoner.

    Obama is in no way articulate.
     
  6. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    you would have to read the book to be sure this quote isn't in there. Let us know what you find.
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780
    He can't and he will not. He only knows how to engage ins Ad Hominems. Fact is there is no context in which the following quote can be excused or take any other way:


     
  8. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    As I understand it, Sunstein is calling for "presumed consent" in regards to organ donation.

    Under such a plan it is presumed that the deceased is consenting to organ donation unless they explicitly register as not consenting.

    This is the opposite of the status quo in which it one must actively consent in order to become a donor.
     
  9. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes I can, and yes I have. But like I said, I won't bother posting such info, because people such as you are not interested in having a civil and polite discussion on the issue. People such as you will simply dismiss any such post as not meeting with your prejudice on the topic.
    That's incredibly funny, given that fact that your are a frequenter of the ad hominem on this board.
    There is indeed, but like I said, you refuse to have an intelligent discussion about it.
     
  10. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, and honestly, that's a topic that bothers me. OTOH, if I'm dead, I don't need my organs, so I'm more than happy to have them removed for donation. But I'm already a donor. We discussed this before, and it's not unlike the issue of circumcision. For years, hospitals automatically circumcised newborns, and no one cared. Now, it's typically the policy for them not to do so, unless instructed. No one had a problem with implied consent back then, so it's by no means a new issue. I'm as of yet undecided on that issue, but am admittedly uncomfortable with the idea of implied consent in regards to organ donation.

    But that's not the topic here. The claim in the OP is that Sunstein advocates the removal for donation of organs from living individuals. That's by no means the case. It's yet another example of WND engaging in yellow journalism.
     
  11. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    kind of what I meant.
    If in fact this is the authors own quite it has only one menaing. Taking organs form people who did not donate them, taking organs from people not yet dead. All without any permission. This is nothing short of evil.
     
  12. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then you acknowlege to buy what WND is selling in the OP, rather than discuss it to test its accuracy?
     
  13. exscentric

    exscentric
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    16
    "Then you acknowlege to buy what WND is selling in the OP, rather than discuss it to test its accuracy?"

    How does "discuss" prove accuracy, why don't you prove it wrong with some context of the quote or that the quote does not exist. :thumbsup: Have you read the book?
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have read the chapter of the book wherein the aforementioned is discussed. As for discussing it, I'd love to. But as a matter of history on this baord, and in topic like this, were I to list references to counter the OP claim, folks who typically buy into stuff like the OP won't change their mind, no matter how objectively wrong they are. They will refuse to engage in civil and respectful discussion, and instead choose to engage in ad hominems, toss the word "liberal" around a few times, and make infantile remarks about those who don't agree with them. So why should I bother listing counterarguments? It bears no fruit, and usually ends up in a urinating contest between a small handful of posters who will choose to disregard civility to make a point.

    Like I said before, I'm by no means an Obama supporter, but I do insist on being accurate and truthful in criticisms of him.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780

    Again posting an article devoid of personal comment does not mean the poster agrees with any or part of it. Often there is a demand to know the poster's opinion right off the bat and it is unnecessary. But since the info cannot be refuted with supporting evidence only personal claims then the old adhominem is thrown out eg "I do not personally like the source so the info is false." Childish
     
  16. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,894
    Likes Received:
    294
    That's your take on it, but the OP , in fact, makes no such claim.

    Perhaps you are hypersensitive concerning the source and read into it things that aren't there.
     
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780
    What is problematic in his statement is that he thinks the state can remove organs without anyone's permission. Talk about your slippery slope
     
  18. exscentric

    exscentric
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    16
    You say it is not true but refuse to prove it because of how others react to you (Might indicate something to you if you ponder the problem.) but offer to discuss it twice. Again, how would discussing it prove anything. Just prove it if you can and stop with the crying in your milk and crude language. :thumbsup:
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780
    Liberals have had an agenda to derail threads when they do not like the info for some time now.
     
  20. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    is this quote from his book?
    if so it is accurate. it means what it says, removing organs without permission form people not dead.
     

Share This Page

Loading...