Sure to all the Seed !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Matt 1:21

    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.


    This is a Promise of something that must be done, its a promised Salvation of a very specific people.

    Rom 4:16

    Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


    Yes, the seed here in this verse and the his people in the Matt 1:21 verse are the same.

    The saving is the same, in Rom 4:16, the promise is speaking about Salvation.

    Lk 2:30-32

    30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

    31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

    32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

    Lk 1:68-77

    68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

    69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

    70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

    71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

    72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

    73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

    74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

    75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

    76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

    77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

    All whom receive a Knowledge of remission of their sins are the His People of Matt 1:21 and the seed of Rom 4:16.

    Notice the mention of our Father Abraham in vs 73

    Abraham is the Father of us all who Believe Rom 4:16

    Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

    Now Salvation is sure to all the seed, it is by Faith that it should be by Grace. So Faith is conditioned by Grace, and not the other way around as the false christian world would tell us. If the promise of eternal salvation or eternal inheritance were conditioned upon those of the seed having faith, then how could the promises be sure to them ?

    But if Faith is a product of Grace, then we can understand how the promises are sure to all the seed. For the seed believes through or by Grace Acts 18:27

    27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

    Because the seed had been ordained to Eternal Life or Inheritance Acts 13:48

    48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed

    And as long as Grace Reigns, faith will be empowered, so all the seed is being kept by the Power and Grace of God through Faith 1Pet 1:5

    5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    That is the Power of God [Grace Reigning] keeps us in the Faith, Grace it is we believe by Acts 18:27, so Grace keeps us believing, if we be of that Holy Seed !

    Those who teach that Salvation is a condional offer to all, they are false teachers and do not understand that Salvation is a Promise to all of a certain seed !
     
  2. Moriah

    Moriah
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    Abraham’s faith and actions worked together. Faith without actions is dead; it is never the saving kind of faith. See James 2:22.

    Abraham was saved by believing and obeying, and we are saved by believing and obeying.

    God does not even know you unless you love Him; and we do not love Him unless we obey. See 1 Corinthians 8:3, and John 14:21,23; 1 John 5:3.

    We are not even given the Holy Spirit unless we obey. See Acts 5:32.

    God was going to kill Moses for not obeying and circumcising his son.

    You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder. James 2:19.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    NO!

    Moses/Abhraham etc weree ALL freely justified by God thru them placing faith in God and trusting in what he told them..

    being saved by God resulted in their good works/deeds, not them causing them to get saved!
     
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    A Promise to the Just !



    Rom 1:16-17

    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    The Just shall, not maybe or might or possibly, but they shall live by Faith !

    Also if any soul do draw back Heb 10:38

    Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

    If any man apostatizes from the Faith of the Gospel, then they were never Just in the first place !

    So as promised, the Just shall live by Faith, and this Faith cometh by Hearing by the Word of God Rom 10:17, which is the Voice of the Logos of God, as He speaks by His Gospel !

    Now with that in Mind, it was stated clearly that Cornelius was a Just Man Acts 10:22

    And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

    And since the Divine Promise is that the Just shall live by Faith, it was needs be that the Gospel be sent to him so that, he being a just man, that he should live by the Faith of the Gospel. The Gospel shall reveal to him a Righteousness from God by Jesus Christ Rom 1:16-17

    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    It [The Gospel Righteousness] was revealed to Faith ! We know Cornelius had God given Faith because he was one that feared God, which meant he was born again of the Spirit, of which Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22. The Gospel was to Cornelius as it is to all the regenerated, those who fear God Acts 13:16,26 a Word of Salvation !

    26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

    Folks, if we are not first given a New Heart by New Birth, then the Gospel as a word of Salvation, is not sent to us, but in such a case it is sent as a Judgment, or death unto death, for we are perishing 2 Cor 2:14-16

    14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

    15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

    16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

    Now how is one Just before God ? Simple, by the Blood of Christ, by the Grace of God ! Rom 5:9

    Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    So if Christ shed His Blood in behalf of One, then they shall live by Faith, it is a Divine promise !
     
  5. billwald

    billwald
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    The Devil is in the pronouns. If the NT was written with nouns instead of pronouns this would be a dead issue. Either God or the writers were sloppy. If they had been lawyers instead of people who badmouthed lawyers we might have a text without loopholes.

    For an unambiguous text, see the Athanasian Creed:

    Written against the Arians.

    Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

    And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords.

    The Father is made of none: neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before or after other; none is greater or less than another; But the whole three Persons are coeternal together, and coequal: so that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped. He, therefore, that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

    Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe faithfully the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of His mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood; Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but one Christ: One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking the manhood into God; One altogether; not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven; He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty; from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.

    This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    It is sure to all "the seed" because it fulfilled in "the seed" singular not plural. Christ obtained the promises by his own personal obedience for His people. However, those promises are received THROUGH faith (2 Thes. 2:13) and not BEFORE faith.
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    The promises are received when they are given New Birth, thats where Faith comes from, the New Birth [2 Thess 2:13]. Christ's personal obedience was not for Himself, it was a Federal Headship Obedience, just as Adam's disobedience and its consequences was not a mere personal disobedience, but an Federal Headship disobedience which carried consequences for many !



    Yes Christ is that seed, but not as a Private Person Gal 3:16, He was the singular seed as He and all believers are one. Gal 3:29

    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Thats because they were One with the Seed Christ of Gal 3:16 !

    As a result of the Disobedience of the Elect's Natural Head Adam, they are made experientially sinners by their first and natural birth, however as a result of the Elects Spiritual Head, Jesus Christ, following having been made experientially sinners, they are made experientially righteous, which is by New Birth !

    Thats the Truth of Rom 5:19

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    When are they given the "new birth' by God?
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    Heirs of God, Joint Heirs with Christ !



    Rom 8:17

    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    Heb 1:1-2

    God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    All the Elect of God are Heirs of God and Joint Heirs of Christ before the world began !

    So Being Joint Heirs with Christ, Christ said to His True Followers Lk 22:22

    And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

    This appointment is before the World began ! So the Elect are Joint Heirs with Christ before the world began, as well as before they are born sinners and servants of sin Rom 6:17, however even as servants of sins, they are Heirs, but differ not as servants of sin as non heirs Paul's point in Gal 4:1. Non Heirs will always be nothing but servants of sin, but not so with the Heirs of God, for there is a time appointed when they are redeemed from servitude, in that they receive the Adoption of Sons, which is by the Spirit's Work unto them of New Birth into the Firstfruits of the Spirit Rom 8:23

    23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    The point is this, though we as men see no difference in the servants of sin by nature, yet God does know the difference between His Heirs and Non Heirs, and in time He makes it evident by sending the Spirit into their Heart Gal 4:5-6 to perform in them the sanctifying work of the Spirit, or the New Birth, which consequently causes the obedience of the belief of the Truth !
     
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    The Seed is also the Elect or Chosen !

    Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9 Ps 105:6



    Eph 1:4

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 2 Tim 1:9


    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    Ps 105:6

    O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.



    Those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation [Eph 1:4] are the ones also given to Him by the Father to give unto them eternal life Jn 17:2

    2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    He shouldn't give it [eternal life] to all without exception, but to only as many as given to Him Eph 1:4 !

    So these would be given to Him as a reward for His suffering, which was the Joy set before Him Heb 12:2, they were given also to come to Him in Faith as for His Reward Jn 6:37

    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    Those who do come to Christ in Faith had been given of the Father, and so it was given to them [who come] to believe on His Name, not for their sakes, but for Christ's behalf Phil 1:29

    29 For unto you[That Believe] it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    Notice, it is given in behalf of Christ ! Thats because believers are given to Christ as The Father's Reward to Him for His Cross Work. Ps 2:8

    8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

    All Saints are Christ's Inheritance Eph 1:18, neither does it matter if they are the Son's Inheritance or the Fathers because Jesus did say Jn 17:10

    And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

    Now those given to Christ by the Father before time, is the foundational cause for which they come to Him in time, so that it comes to past as Per 2 Tim 2:19

    19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his[His Inheritance]. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

    BTW this excludes these from ever being the Lords, those He knows Matt 7:23

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Now this departing from iniquity as per 2 Tim 2:19 for those who are Christ's and He knows that are His, this departing from iniquity is effected by His Redeeming Death for them as Per Titus 2:14

    14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

    For it is of the Righteousness of God that the Son of His Love has in possession those he purchased with His own Blood ! And so Faith is alloted to them all 2 Pet 1:1

    Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

    Thats why it is said of Paul it is given to believe on Christ on Christ's Behalf Phil 1:29 !
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    Those given to Christ [ His Seed] !



    Jn 17:2

    2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    Those given to Christ, that do come to Him or do believe in Him, as it is evidenced by His Chosen disciples that were presently before Him when He was saying these words of Jn 17, now if any of those given Him by His Father, be lost, then He has failed His Fathers will for Him, for it is written Jn 6:37-38

    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will/desire/pleasure of him that sent me.

    39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


    Now vs 39 is in regards to all the Father hath chosen in Him Eph 1:4

    And vs 40

    40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    again emphasizes those Chosen, with the added comment of what is the result or effect of God's choice of them, they see [spiritually] the Son and Believe in Him. They must see Him because, as the father gave them to Him, He also Gave Him to them as a Covenant to them, which results in this Isa 42:6-7

    I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

    7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

    Yes, once their blind eyes are opened from their natural state of blindness, they see the Son, and Believe in Him as their Salvation, but if just one for whom was given to Him by the Father, should perish and be lost, Christ did fail His Father's will, desire, and pleasure; and those false teachers that teach that Christ died for any who shall be lost, they do preach Christ as a failure of His Father's will, which is Blasphemy at it's Highest. Simply Put, if we believe any for whom Christ died shall perish in their sins, we do blaspheme !
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    Why its sure to all the seed !

    Eternal Life and or Salvation are but the Effects of the Everlasting Covenant, the Covenant of Grace as some call it; Yet it was not a Covenant made with men, but with Christ, as He was the Head of a Seed. This is set forth in Ps 89:27-30

    27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

    28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

    29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

    Vs 29 is speaking about Eternal Life for His Seed as in Isa 53:10

    10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

    When God says, I will make His seed endure forever, that is Life Eternal !

    This passage is of David as a Type of Christ, reflecting a Covenant previously made with Christ before the World began with God's Chosen, Christ 1 Pet 2:4

    To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

    Ps 89:1-4

    I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

    2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.

    3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

    4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

    And the Promise of God to His Chosen, is that He will establish His Seed forever, which picks up at Ps 89:27-30.

    This is why in the NT we see these words Rom 16:25

    Now to him that is of power to stablish you according
    to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    2 Cor 1:21

    Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

    1 Thess 3:13

    To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

    2 Thess 3:3

    But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

    Faithful to what ? To the Promises of the Everlasting Covenant to establish His Seed
    Ps 89:4

    4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
    There are no conditions on man's part for the realization of the Eternal Blessings of the Covenant of which Christ is the Surety and Mediator of, for He has met them all, and so the blessings thereof must be dispensed to all His Seed !
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Do you even post respones back to questions about your theology?
     
  14. savedbymercy

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    Eternal Life is Promised to a seed not offered all!



    Eternal life was never promised or premised in Adam or with any covenant that he stood as the head of, however Eternal Life was always constituted and promised in another Covenant, before that of Adam's, even before the world began, and in it, God that cannot lie did promise it Titus 1:1-2

    Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

    2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    Promised to Christ and those given to Him as His Seed 1 Jn 5:11

    11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us[The seed or heirs] eternal life, and this life is in his Son[The Heir].

    Paul understood this 2 Tim 1:1

    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

    1 Jn 2:25

    25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us[Christ's Seed], even eternal life.

    Ps 89:1-4

    I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

    2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.

    3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

    4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

    Eternal Life is and has only ever been through Jesus Christ, and His Covenant Work and Accomplishment through His Cross, in shedding the blood of the everlasting Covenant, so Jesus says here Jn 17:1-4

    These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

    2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work[Of the Covenant] which thou gavest me to do.

    The giving of Eternal Life in vs 2 to as many as the Father gave Him, was conditioned upon Him finishing the Covenant Work of vs 4 that the Father gave Him to do in the Everlasting Covenant before the World began, before Adam was created !

    Not at anytime did Eternal Life depend upon Adam's obedience, and those who believe and teach that it did or that it's offered to all, are just plain ignorant to what the scriptures teach, and do teach lies. It is through Jesus Christ Our Lord Rom 6:23

    23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life[As a Covenant Promise] through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    It is not because of a mistake of Adam Rom 5:12, but it was always, before the World was ever created predicated on and in Christ Jesus, the Covenant head of the seed, or the Election of Grace, before Adam was even a piece dust !
     
  15. Fred's Wife

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    I believe SBM is simply carrying on a conversation with himself. He never answers anybody...just continues to post random scriptures which "seem" to fit his theology, but are definitely not in CONTEXT with anything else he has posted...somewhat cacophonic!
     
  16. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    What's not true in post 14?
     
  17. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife
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    There's nothing wrong with the Scripture verses you posted....it is YOUR interpretation of those verses and the fact that the verses are taken out of CONTEXT!
     
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    fw

    I did not think so ! Whats not true about the post ? Prove to me what is not true about it, tell me why ?
     
  19. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife
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    YOUR hyper calvinistic interpretation of ALL the scripture you post all over this forum is the problem. I need not PROVE anything....you have proved it through your out of context postings and sarcastic remarks.
     
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    fw

    Thats your excuse for not being able to receive the Truth of scripture I showed in post 14. You will be held accountable to God however !
     

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