SWBTS New Testament Prof Fired

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Jimmy C, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
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    You new Testament scholars get your resumes put together - Paige has fired David Crutchley - a distinguished New Testament scholar and former missionary, as well as former dean of the school of Theology.

    Looks like Patterson is finally starting to put his and the trustees imprint on the faculty - last one to leave turn off the lights

    [ February 24, 2004, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Was it an outright firing? What were the reasons? Is there a link?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

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    http://www.swbts.edu/faculty/dcrutchley/

    Jimmy,

    Are you sure you got the story correct? I only ask because none of the Baptist media even mentions this. Also, he is still listed as a member of their faculty on their website as linked above.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. gb93433

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    If I remember right there was trouble earlier. He is too good for those folks. He is not mean spirited like some others who want control. He is not really a part of them.

    The media does not always list everything. The registrar is no longer there. He was replaced. That registrar called attention to their lack of academic standards. He is now at a secular college doing a related job. They didn't like it when he pointed out there lack of standard. You know image is important! Gotta have a good image.
     
  5. Jimmy C

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    Fired is a harsh way of saying that his contract will not be renewed next academic year - still fired, and all politics.
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Ok.

    Does anyone know what he did to merit this nonrenewal of his contract? Also, Jimmy, what are your sources on this? Do you know the guy personally?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. Jimmy C

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    I know friends of his, he happened to be an advocate of the faculty during his brief tenure as Dean, this did not sit well with Miles Seaborn who was on the board of trustees at the time. - if you do a google search on him you can read a few editorials and news items
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Sounds to me as if we are not seeing the full picture here. I will have to take your word for it though, since I see no public statement by either the seminary, the press, or Pro. Crutchley.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. gb93433

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    I know some of the former and current professors and what I was told is that he is not a mean spiritied fundamentalist. He does not fit in with the attitude of the party line. He believes much the same things they do but is not mean spirited. I think Hemphill was much the same way but different too.

    Their decisons don't surprise me. It is accordance with what they are presently known for. It all fits together.
     
  10. preachinjesus

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    Hmm I go to SWBTS and I haven't heard about this...

    I'm pretty involved in leadership here too and I haven't heard about this...
     
  11. Todd

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    GB and Jimmy, it sounds to me like you guys need to get your facts straight before you come in here and say that Paige or anyone else has fired a professor at SWBTS. Remember, the Scriptures say that the man of God is to be "above reproach" in all his dealings - including that which he says.

    Further, to come onto this forum and call Dr. Patterson and others around him "mean-spirited" is really a sin when you get right down to it. Let me ask you guys, do either of you know Dr. Patterson? Have you ever even met him? Do you even know what has happened at SEBTS since he came there in 1992? I can answer yes to all these questions, but I seriously doubt that either of you can. As recently as October I sat down with Dr. Patterson for dinner in Knoxville and I got to hear him share his heartbeat for SWBTS and the SBC. If there is anything that Dr. Patterson is not, HE IS NOT MEAN-SPIRITED, but you wouldn't know that if the only thing you really know of him is what the Associated Baptist Press tells you. They portrayed Dr. Patterson and many others around him as being mean-spirited, arrogant, and power hungry. Do you want to know what really drives Dr. Patterson - missions, evangelism, and academic excellence. I will give you examples of each of these.

    Missions: Before Patterson arrived at SEBTS, the school was doing virtually no missions. Now, SEBTS is sending out more foreign missionaries and church planters than any other seminary - just look at what the school has done with new church starts in New England for instance. None of that was happening before he arrived.

    Evangelism: When Dr. Patterson arrived at SEBTS, the very essence of the Gospel was being questioned by left-wing professors. Immediately, Dr. Patterson begin to preach the Gospel from the seminary's pulpit and seminary students were being saved - I saw several grown men trust Christ while at the school. Not to mention the fact that seminary students were being sent out with the Great Commission ringing in their ears, and not some liberal mantra.

    Academic Excellence: Do you know how low SEBTS had come under liberal leadership - their accrediation was nearly stripped from them. The school's enrollment had begin to bottom out and the academic condition of the school was a mess. SACS came in and told the school to clean things up or risk losing their accredidation. "Cleaning things up" is an understatement for what the school was able to do under Dr. Patterson's leadership. Not only did the school retain its accredidation, but it added many new challenging academic programs.

    Therefore, when you come on here and all but accuse Dr. Patterson and those around him of being mean-spirited and power hungry, you ought to know what you are talking about. You know what really separates Dr. Patterson from the moderates/liberals who are so critical of him: That crowd always talks about the importance of missions and evangelism, but Dr. Patterson is actually leading those under his influence to do missions and evangelism.

    In the future, please refrain from defaming someone's character when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Further, don't declare someone fired when they haven't actually been asked to pack their things and leave the school's campus - that is deceptive and it is sin.

    Speaking the Truth in Love, Todd
     
  12. Baptist Believer

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    Just want to point out the Southeastern Seminary had experienced steady growth through the years until the so-called “conservative resurgence”. When enough “resurgence” trustees had been appointed to the board and they were able to get Lolley to resign, they brought in Lewis Drummond to take over.

    Under the leadership of Drummond and the “resurgence” majority on the trustee board, Southeastern went into a time of severe decline, losing much of their faculty and many of their students. When the school’s accreditation was in danger, Drummond resigned and Patterson came in.

    Do your homework before accusing “liberals” of throwing Southeastern into decline. The information is readily available to anyone who wants to check it out. In fact, you can check Southeastern’s own Web site to verify most of the details and timeline:

    http://www.sebts.edu/prospective_students/who_we_are/brief_history.cfm
     
  13. Todd

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    Wow, that's some of the best redaction history I've ever seen. If you really know you're history, then you'll know that SEBTS was already on the way down with Drummond got to it. Drummond was almost like a lion among wolves during his time at SEBTS - that's not to say that there were no conservatives there, but there certainly weren't as many as you imply! If you'll remember, it took a 16-14 vote from the trustees to even call Brother Paige as President. Don't imply that everything was peachy until the conservatives took over SEBTS - things were already headed way down hill. Even into the late '90's, SEBTS had the reputation of being ultra-liberal (thanks to the horrible teaching of the liberal 70's-80's faculty) - this made Drummond and Patterson's task very difficult. They have now overcome that image and SEBTS is quite possibly the finest evangelical seminary in the world - something it couldn't even come close to saying before Patterson arrived.

    You'd think that if the moderates/liberals were so good at building seminaries and "fellowships," that the CBF would be booming right now. But of course, it is still leaching off of SBC churches to stay in existence. It's pretty pathetic when you consider some of the tactics they have tried to grow the CBF - bringing in Tony Campolo to speak at the annual meeting, clearly espousing "open theism," etc. SBC history clearly demonstrates that when men who believe in the inerrancy of the Word are placed into leadership positions, God begins to bless - Dr. Patterson just happens to be one of those men.
     
  14. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
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    Todd

    For the record I have met Dr. Patterson several times. I have not called him mean spirited - I merely dont agree with him on a few issues - Mainly the Female professor issue and the BWA issue.

    I think Dr Patterson will have an impact, and may grow the seminary - but I think that he is going to have to start and undergraduate program to do it as was done at Southern and I think at SEBTS as well. SWBTS does have undergraduates currently, but they are taking classes along side the masters level students currently with very mixed results.

    Patterson will attract a different kind of student to SWBTS.

    For the record, SWBTS was never seen as a liberal seminary under either Dr. Dilday or Hemphill. SWBTS had record enrollment under Dr. Dilday and only started declining after the "Conservative Resurgence"

    But I will make a deal with you - if I am wrong about Dr. Crutchley (I am not) I will apologize in bold letters on this forum, and if you are you will do likewise.
     
  15. Baptist Believer

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    So you’re disputing the official history posted on the Southeastern Web site?!


    Lots of institutions had difficulty during that time for many reasons. Among other things, Southeastern Seminary was becoming a battleground because of the so-called “resurgence” folks attacking the seminary leadership. Things got worse when the “resurgence” trustees gained control and Drummond came in to lead.



    I didn’t. I just pointed out what was wrong with your attempt to hang the student decline, faculty turnover and accreditation problems on the so-called “liberals”.



    Actually, you can thank the “resurgence” crowd for that reputation because of their constant allegations of “liberalism”. (It would be nice to have a workable definition of “a liberal” so I could honestly confirm or deny your allegations. In my experience, the term “liberal” is used to identify and condemn anyone who stands in the way of the “resurgence”.)



    The CBF operates quite a bit differently from the SBC, so it is not going to have a collection of seminaries under its control. But there are a number of seminaries and programs throughout the world that are supported by CBF churches.

    Furthermore, you make it sound like everything is booming in the SBC seminary circuit. That’s not true. Overall enrollment declined for a number of years since the “resurgence” takeover was completed and I’m not sure if it is on the increase yet. (The figures often given for seminary enrollment now often include students who are enrolled in undergraduate programs, so the official figures need to be examined more carefully than simple bottom-line numbers.)


    So the SBC doesn’t bring in interesting speakers for their annual meetings? [​IMG]

    That’s a blatant lie.

    Now I’m not accusing you of lying because I’m sure you got that idea from Baptist Press. They completely misrepresented a “Breakout Session” (that is, an information/discussion session held outside of the business and fellowship sessions of the annual meeting) to make it sound like the CBF embraced Open Theism. Baptist Press declined to mention that similar sessions were held to discuss Calvinism and other theological viewpoints. That’s about as honest as claiming that Southwestern Seminary “espoused” Mormonism because we had a discussion of it in my “Theology of American Cults” class in Spring 1990.

    Your repetition of the lie only illustrates how much disinformation the SBC leadership has put out against the CBF, the BGCT and anyone who dares point out facts that disagree with their agenda.

    If they lied to you about something that is so easily verified, what else have they lied to you about? They have about as much credibility as Al Gore did when he was campaigning for President.
     
  16. gb93433

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    Did I really say this? All I know about the firing is what I read here. But two years ago I was told by a professor to expect Crutchley to leave and the resaons why. In fact I contacted the same professor and he wasn't aware that Crutchley was fired.
     
  17. preachinjesus

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    This is worthy of note. SWBTS has always been a good, strong seminary and is the flagship seminary of the SBC. It never saw the liberal degradations of Southern or Southeastern, but did have some moderate brethern amongst is faculty. The school's enrollment has been declining for awhile, though I suspect this trend is going to end soon.

    I'll take you up on the deal. I know a whole lot more about SWBTS than alot of people because of my involvement in the leadership of the seminary from a student angle (I hold a number of positions within certain organizations and meet with administration officials regularly.) I don't know the disposition of Dr. Crutchley after this semester well enough to say for him (which I would never do) whether he is staying or leaving. Dr. Crutchley is fine man of Christ and an educator par excellance. I will however say that I have no knowledge of Dr. Patterson firing anyone on the school of theology faculty since he has been here.

    Please list your source for that comment and I'll oblige your point if it is legitimate my friend.
     
  18. Jimmy C

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    If you are in a leadership position as you say, ask some of your proffs in the school of theology. At this point they probably will not tell a student, but it would be interesting to hear what response you get. I can assure you that Dr. Crutchley will not be teaching at SWBTS after this academic year - and it wont be because he resigned.

    You are correct however - he is a fine man and an wonderful educator - but - he would not fall in line policically, and was an advocate for the faculty at a time when certain (Miles Seaborn et al) trustees wanted faculty members removed. do you recall the hunkered down moderates comment made by Seaborn?
     
  19. preachinjesus

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    That isn't answering the question. I am really wondering if your basis for making such an alarming statement is based on substantive conversation with an informed party in the matter at hand, or if your statement is based on information gathered from the DFW SBC rumor mill that usually hasn't been too accurate.

    I just tire of constant attempts to undermine what is going on out here at SWBTS by a minority of dissenters who start little stories that have no basis. I would just like to know if this is information based on substantive sources or simply something pulled out of the rumor mill.
     
  20. Jimmy C

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    OK Preach

    My information comes from the hated unnamed source, very close to the situation but would not like to have thier name brought up here. You will not like that answer but it is the best I can give. Just remember - you heard it here first.
     

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