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SWBTS New Testament Prof Fired

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Jimmy C, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    Preach in Jesus,

    You told me that you had Crutchley for class, would you rate his theology as conservative? Can you think of a reason that he would be fired apart from politics? Is Crutchley good in the classrooom, does he seem to care about his students? Has he ever shown any doubt about the truth of Scripture?

    Did you ever have Bullock? If so, same questions.

    Makes you wonder who will be next to go - and if there will be enough qualified professors for the PhD students to get a credible degree. The NT and History departments have now been decimated.

    By the way, have you heard that finances at SWBTS are so bad that professors are having to teach 3 hours without pay? Once again this is not rumor, but fact. Blaising announced it in a meeting last thursday. I got word from a professor himself.

    Dont count on word of this ever coming from BP - who are nothing more than a PR arm of the executive board. You may not like ABP but at least they provide a bit of balance to the pablum that comes out of BP.
     
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    gb, it is not a gossip for one person to tell me about a liberal professor. He was telling me the good and bad things about his seminary days. That included telling me about the worthless liberals.

    I realize you have to stretch reality since you are a liberal, but ....
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    This whole thread is full of second hand, unsubstantiated gossip from both sides of the issue. Why it is allowed to continue is beyond me. It certainly violates not only the teachings of the Bible, but also the rules of this board, and possibly the law (Libel and slander).

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    QUOTE]Originally posted by Todd:
    GB and BB, you guys are excellent at redaction history (maybe that's because moderates/liberals are so sympathetic with higher criticism). [/quote]

    Interesting how you have alleged things about my theology without any basis in reality. If you took the time to actually talk to me about my beliefs, you would know that I reject so-called “higher criticism”.

    Furthermore, your continued allegations that I practice “redaction history” is getting really old. Why don’t we discuss the issues instead of making unsubstantiated charges against me. Can you do that?

    I can help you research some of these facts if you are interested, but you’re going to have to be an honest student and check them out for yourself. You have accused me so many times of editing history that I think you need to find out the truth for yourself. It seems pretty clear you assume I will not tell you the truth.

    And you failed to mention that I explicitly told you it was several years old. I’m not trying to hide anything here. I have first-hand information about most of the information regarding Southwestern Seminary that is included in that report.

    As for the issue of bias, I don’t think it is terribly biased. (Note that the BGCT report urges continued support of the Golden Gate seminary – hardly a position that an anti-SBC report would take.)

    And I also noted that. But, for the record, my statements about seminary enrollment dealt with the years between about 1983 and 1995 – not the last few years.

    I find it interesting that you want me to accept your first-hand and anonymous second-hand information without question, but you won’t accept my first-hand testimony regarding the events at Southwestern and the treatment of certain professors I know.

    His story seems so far off base that I’d need for him to have the nerve to come forward if I’m going to believe his allegations.

    Can he provide any evidence of his story? For instance, I can provide some tangible evidence of the content and timing of my meeting with Hemphill back in Spring 1995 where he threatened me to keep my mouth shut about his admission that the seminary trustees and administration had lied about the firing of Dilday. (I have notes written in his own hand, a transcript of our discussion – sealed and postmarked within a few days of our meeting with copies residing on three different people’s permanent files throughout Texas, and a copy of something I wrote that landed me in his office in the first place. The three people who have copies of the documentation do not know each other and are on differing sides of the issues from me, but they are all honest people who know me very well.)

    Because I don’t have much doubt that one of the two speakers in the Breakout session was sympathetic to open theism. Of course you made the logical leap that because the session allow a person sympathetic to open theism to present his side of the issues on an equal playing field with someone who opposed it, that the entire CBF was somehow “espousing” it.

    I think what you are referring to is my demand that you prove that the CBF was “espousing” open theism. If that’s the only “proof” you have, you have absolutely no proof.

    If you can provide proof that the CBF “espouses” open theism, I would like to see it. But having a speaker present that side of the theological issue during an information/discussion session is not proof. In fact, it demonstrates that the CBF has not embraced open theism because they have to bring in a speaker to explain it to them!

    It can if you take the time to check it out. Unfortunately, since the event occurred 10 years ago next month, most of that information from third parties (secular newspapers and such) is no longer available on the internet. If you go to your library and do a newspaper search for March 1994, you will likely find more information than you can handle.

    Here’s a simple Google search:
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Dilday+locks+Southwestern+firing&btnG=Google+Search

    You may allege that the information is “biased”, but do your own research at your library and read the newspapers from that era. You will discover the truth.

    Almost everything that I have said can be validated by someone who is interested in checking it out. The Texas Historical Collection of the BGCT in Dallas has a number of documents related to the period around the Dilday firing. If you contact them, they may be able to make some copies of information (that is not copyrighted) and send them to you for a nominal fee to cover their costs of duplication and postage.

    That’s good advice for you too.

    Not true. I check out most of what I read – especially if it is controversial. I’ve never caught the BGCT or ABP in a lie. I’ve caught Baptist Press in more lies and distortions than I can remember.

    You forgot to mention “political reasons”.

    Apparently you’ve missed all of the discussion and critique of the “family” amendment to the BF&M in 1998 and the theological critique of the BF&M 2000.

    Furthermore, the character-assassination tactics of many SBC leaders are contemptible.

    That explains your “typical moderate/liberal” comments I suppose…

    Have you ever attended one of the allegedly “moderate/liberal” meetings like a CBF meeting or BGCT annual meeting? I have attended three CBF annual meetings and at least a dozen BGCT annual meetings since the late 1980s, and have not seen the emphasis on personalities that you allege. Most of the discussion (when we’re discussing the SBC at all) is about theological issues.

    I don’t know if he has been divorced or not. If you know, you need to either say so or don’t mention it at all. Your open-ended question/allegation serves only to make him appear immoral or unstable.

    Campolo does not condone homosexual relationships, but his wife is more open to them. His wife’s views are different than his own. Of course you’re using guilt by association to try to make Campolo appear like he supports homosexual relationships when he does not.

     
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    How do you know whether or not what your mentor told you is fact? If not then it is hearsay. It seems that if you have no problem with that then you would have no problem making it public record. If not then it is hearsay and gossip. Six things the Lord hates, no...... After all why would you make such accusations against another without proof especially a professor. He cannot even defend himself against that kind of gossip.

    You do know what scripture says about entertaining an accusation against an elder don’t you.

    You and your mentor are gossips plain and simple. You are unwilling to name names and confront those people openly but to secretly undermine them. What integrity you have! What a believer in convenient theology! I thought you believed the Bible and now you justify your gossip.

    Try applying Paul’s command, “Whatever is true...

    Thank you for calling me a liberal. It reminds me of Matthew 5:11,12, "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

    I have had accusations levied against me by people who held your same beliefs. It started with gossip because I wouldn't support the deacons having the Mormon bishop to come and preach. They even had the audacity to say things they made up that never happened and were not true. There were people who actually believed them. I know of more pastors that has happened to than you can imagine. I even told my wife that they are not describing the same person I know. They even told non-believers these things. Imagine that! I found out as I met some non-believers who told me about the juicy gossip.
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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  7. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Jimmy, I'll be responding to your post as soon as possible. My company's server crashed yesterday and its going to be a few days before I can get access to my network there. (seeing as I spend 35 hours a week at the place it is the only internet I have) Its not that I've been ignoring you I've just got a ton of posts to catch up on several other forums. [​IMG]

    Right now I'm checking my posts from the "computer lab" at SWBTS. Not enough time to read everything. This next comment isn't for you though Jimmy. [​IMG]

    Seems there is alot of ad hoc claims and statements being made around here. What was it James said we should aspire to? quick to hear and slow to speak...(James 1:19)
     
  8. Todd

    Todd New Member

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    GB, for the record, I think Charles Stanley should have stepped down when he got divorced. I don't believe in a double standard for any pastor when it comes to the issue of divorce or any other matter for that issue.

    If you guys would like to discuss some matter of theology, like I said, I would be more than happy to do so.
     
  9. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    I am inclined to agree with Joseph Bostwick regarding the nature of second-hand information and possible gossip contained in this thread. I fully understand not feeling at liberty to disclose the name of a trusted professor or friend without permission. However, we all need to be a bit more careful when discussing issues that demand evidence. Therefore, I am closing this thread. Please feel free to start another thread on this topic when/if you can provide documented evidence to support your claims.

    Yours in Christ,

    Bible-boy
     
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