Take my Greek Quiz

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Greektim, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. Greektim

    Greektim
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  2. Greektim

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  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Sorry Tim, never studied Greek. Why should I with all you intellectuals walking around. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  4. Van

    Van
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    I will play Greektim.

    1. Meat = krea

    2. He eats = phage

    My method was to find the English word in the Greek New Testament, then use an interlinear to find the transliterated Greek word.

    I have almost no language skills and so I would not do well in English, let alone a foreign tongue.

    But I very much admire those who do, and use them to teach how to read God's word in their original languages.
     
  5. Greektim

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    This is more for those who have taken or can read Greek. I hope it helps to demonstrate that some basic words and actions that we use in every day life is often not part of our understanding of NT Greek.

    And that is too bad. We are teaching people in seminaries how to translate the NT NOT teaching them the language of the NT in order to properly understand it. Seminaries are the only place with this kind of language pedagogy, and I find it strange.

    If we trained missionaries to learn new languages the same way we teach them Greek or Hebrew, Lord help that missionary to ever be able to communicate to the people in that new language. Why is it that we don't help students learn the language the same way we learn modern languages. I feel like we would be better exegetes if we took the time to learn it the way we learn any new language, via immersion in a real world living-language approach (speaking it, hearing it, saying it, writing it, and perhaps later translating it).
     
    #5 Greektim, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2012
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Maybe that tells you the character of this forum. :laugh: But I am interested ....what is your level of proficiency of Spanish? I see you as an apple faced young intellectual from North Carolina. your teaching Hondurans....Greek? Do you have a good working knowledge of conversational Spanish? If so I would be interested in how you obtained it as I will have to learn it & during my school years, learning Spanish was an abject failure.
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Tim, I looked at your quiz and figure I'd probably only get about a 50% without the material to study. :eek: Looks like a good one! :laugh:

    I like your approach. Do I sniff Dr. Black's influence there? I only have one Japanese student right now, but may be travelling down to Sapporo to a church there to teach some ministerial students in a large church there, and am thinking of using your approach. Are you using a textbook of some kind? Dr. Black's? About all we have in Japanese is Machen. I may have to start translating Dr. Black's textbook.

    My one Japanese student has finished most of Machen and we are translating 1 John right now from the Byzantine Textform. He is absolutely delighted, enjoying every minute of translation work. I've gotten the Fribergs' Analytical (love their definitions) for him to use, and it was the best thing I could have done. His knowledge of English (which he teaches) plus the Analytical help him to translate almost without error, though it's still too literal (even for me :smilewinkgrin:).
     
  8. Greektim

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    I don't think Dr. B's text is the living-language approach. I haven't looked at his grammar in a while, but I'm pretty sure it is not.

    We are using Buth's stuff mostly, except when I do teach grammar, I am going off of memory (Mounce). Go to: www.biblicallanguagecenter.com
     
  9. Greektim

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    My Spanish is not very good. But I'm learning (typing this in my Spanish class right now actually). I work at a bilingual school where I teach in English. Thus these kids only know language immersion. So we teach Greek using language immersion. But it is still not as immersed as I would like b/c it is still not as proficient for me as I would like. This is a new approach for me to teach this in Greek, so I am learning with them. But I know when to use case endings and proper verb endings as well as why the things are happening in the language (I was taught w/ the grammar based learning concept in order to translate).
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    I keep meaning to buy his text, but I think the major emphasis is on reading Greek.

    So essentially are you writing your own textbook with this approach? Or are you aiming more at just an introductory approach to prepare them for college type Greek? If I am officially invited down to the church in Sapporo they will be college age, serious students.

    I'll check out the link, 'cause you're making think. :thumbs:
     
  11. Greektim

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    I'm pretty sure that while Dr. B likes the living language approach, he does not use it in his class nor his textbook. His approach is similar to Mounce and others... teach the grammar to help students "read" (actually translate) the NT. His goal may be to increase reading capabilities for his students, but I don't believe he is going about it the most effective way. People who read in a new language do it b/c they are immersed in the language as a living language. I have no problem reading Spanish and understanding much of it b/c I am immersed in it everyday. No one is teaching me how to take the Spanish grammar and turn it into English.
     
  12. jonathan.borland

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    The problem is that biblical Greek is not a living language with a living teacher to create the classroom environment you envisage. Now sure, some monks could get together like in Erasmus' time and only speak biblical Greek with one another, but still this is merely a simulation and anything spoken would have to be checked with actual written records from the biblical period. For example, how do you know that my καθηται επι της καθεδρας is not more accurate than your καθηται εν τη καθεδρα which would could indicate idleness or inaction? The revitalization of the dead Biblical Hebrew language in the making of the modern Jewish state is a neat case study however, but still modern Hebrew and Biblical Hebrew are two different birds.

    I'm interested in how your classroom progresses, since I have the unenviable position of teaching Greek 1 and Greek 2 to foreign seminarians in two 10-day modular periods.
     
  13. Greektim

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    This is more of a pedagogical method than an exegetical one. You can read about this in a short series of articles by Daniel Streett here.

    I've talked to Dr. Streett about my method. Mine is not a wholly living language approach b/c we incorporate grammar into the lessons partly b/c we have students who are already bilingual (some trilingual). So they not only want to learn the "whats" of the language but also the "whys" since they've already encountered both in other languages. I am learning Spanish the same way b/c it helps me understand the what when I know why things are doing what they are doing.

    However, pedagogically, just b/c Greek is a dead language doesn't mean it can't be taught as a living language approach. As for your example, of course context would help, but the story makes sense w/ someone sitting in the chair rather on the chair (though in that sense they are interchangeable... something that is also incorporated in the living language approach).

    The hardest thing is deciding which Greek pronunciations to follow. I am so used to Erasmian pronunciations that switching to a more semitic understanding has been difficult. But Erasmian was likely not how it sounded back then. Vowels and certain diphthongs sound similar which explain many textual variants.
     
  14. Van

    Van
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    Why waste time learning what a computer can do in fractions of a second. The issue with understanding the New Testament is to discern the intended meaning of the words. We have the critical text in transliterated form so no need to muddy the waters with the Greek alphabet.

    Does not the idea of "in the original language" simply allow preachers to claim scripture means something other than what the English translation says?

    It is like some sort of cottage industry, an industry by the elites, for the elites, of the elites. Does not mesh with the gospel is so simple a child can understand it.
     
  15. Greektim

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    Yes... let's keep dumbing down our understanding... good one.

    And of course, the gospel is so easy a child can do it... except Jesus says entering the kingdom is difficult and that faith needs to be child like. You are confusing metaphors.

    I may be a Bible elitist when it comes to Bible study b/c those who don't have the capabilities to do a thorough studies voice their opinions all too loudly. I say, let's chain the Bible back to the pulpit again for a new reformation ;)
     
  16. jonathan.borland

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    Erasmian pronunciation has been used standardly in both classical and religious Greek education for a very long time. Whoever learns exclusively a different pronunciation scheme will sound stupid whenever in any academic setting anywhere in the world. Standardization in such things as this is not bad but rather necessary. It's your pedagogy of teaching a dead language through a living language approach that fascinates me, and in fact it's not new since monks, and even Erasmus himself, have been using this approach for who knows how long. The problem is that most of us are not sequestered monks on the backside of a mountain somewhere with that much time on our hands.
     
  17. Van

    Van
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    If you listen to experts say something means this, and other experts say, no it means that, pretty soon you figure out the experts are not really expert.

    The gospel as presented by "experts" is complex and riddled with paradox, and therefore no one can understand it. However scripture teaches the gospel is simple and a child can understand it, i.e. hidden from the self proclaimed experts but revealed to babes.
     
  18. John of Japan

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    When did this thread become about the Gospel?? :rolleyes:
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    is this anoth back handed railing against calvinistic teachers/teaching, or against those holding to reformed doctrines?
     
  20. franklinmonroe

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    From the website--
    Kinda ironic, don't you think?
     

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