Talking the Walk - McCain's Faith

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JustChristian, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    October 21, 2008

    The following article is located at: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/october/19.32.html

    Christianity Today, October, 2008
    Talking the Walk
    After years of ambiguity, Senator McCain reveals his spiritual side for public viewing. How will evangelicals respond?

    The prayer lives of these prisoners of war blossomed as never before, but not necessarily with prayers for freedom. Commander Day put it this way: "We told the guys that they could pray, but that they shouldn't pray to be released or be saved from their situation." As McCain later explained in an interview, "I think it was important, for the stability factor, that it wasn't God who was going to perform a miracle, end the war, and bring us home." Their concern was that praying the wrong way would weaken their resolve.

    On March 14, 1973, the North Vietnamese released McCain. After extensive medical treatment, he served the Navy in many capacities, including as a liaison to Congress. Around this time, McCain's marriage fell apart due to his unfaithfulness. His wife granted him a divorce in February 1980. Five months later, he remarried. (McCain admitted at the recent Saddleback Civil Forum that his first marriage's end has been his greatest personal failing.)

    Though little evidence suggests that the Christian Coalition orchestrated the smear campaign, McCain believed it was behind it in some way. A few days later, in a Virginia Beach gym only a few miles from Christian Coalition headquarters, McCain let his long pent-up anger erupt. He denounced the Christian Coalition's Pat Robertson and Moral Majority's Jerry Falwell as "self-appointed leaders" who acted like "union bosses" shaking down their supporters for money and power. He accused them of practicing "the politics of division and slander."

    Reaction was predictably fierce. McCain decided to up the ante: He told reporters traveling with him that the Religious Right was an "evil influence." Even those evangelicals supporting the senator, such as Bauer, warned that they could not justify the senator's attacks.

    Nevertheless, McCain's public rapprochement with evangelicals was at full swing. In early 2007, McCain called Rick Warren, Franklin Graham, John Hagee, and other evangelical leaders. He attended church dedications and hired evangelical-outreach staffers. In September 2007, for the first time, he publicly noted that he was going to a Baptist church. In fact, for 15 years the McCains had attended North Phoenix Baptist, a Southern Baptist affiliate.

    While the nomination was McCain's, he still lacked public support from evangelical leaders. Pentecostal preacher Hagee was among the first. In late February, McCain flew to San Antonio to receive Hagee's endorsement. Criticisms of Hagee arose immediately. Hagee's prosperity gospel and his habit of making judgmental pronouncements against Catholics, Jews, and African Americans alienated many. McCain was speechless. He stopped talking about the endorsement 24 hours after receiving it. He eventually rejected Hagee's endorsement, as well as the endorsement of Ohio pastor Rod Parsley.

    Other evangelical endorsements were slow in coming. Bauer of American Values endorsed McCain, but warned him that trouble was brewing. In March, McCain met in New Orleans with the Council for National Policy, an invitation-only group of socially conservative power brokers. McCain didn't talk about social issues or his faith until prodded during the question-and-answer session. Richard Viguerie, the ultra-conservative direct-mail guru, observed that many found McCain evasive about his heartfelt values.

    Even the Southern Baptist Convention's Richard Land, an enthusiastic supporter (not endorser) of McCain, says that the senator is "not the first choice, not the second choice, not even the third choice of many evangelicals."
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    August 20, 2008
    McCain's faith journey largely unspoken
    by Adelle M. Banks
    Religion News Service
    http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=16302


    Like this signature moment, which was wrapped, out of necessity, in silence, the Arizona Republican's own faith journey has been largely unspoken.

    When Warren asked McCain what being a Christian means, the senator simply said: "It means I'm saved and forgiven."

    During much of his time as a senator, McCain has attended North Phoenix Baptist Church, a Southern Baptist congregation in Arizona where his wife Cindy was baptized in 1991. But McCain has not joined the church, whose Sunday morning service is attended by about 2,200.

    "He does not describe himself as one denomination or another but he felt like the Baptist church in North Phoenix had a good message, a message that resonated with him and so that is where he goes to church," said Taylor Griffin, a spokesman for the senator's campaign.

    He said McCain attends church "whenever possible when he's in the Phoenix area."

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    No mention of Jesus Christ as his personal Savior or redemption through the blood of Christ spilled on the cross. Doesn't associate with a denomination nor has he gotten involved in any church. Attended a church for 15 years but never joined. Has he ever made a public profession of faith? Not that I could find. I don't think he's a Muslim or Buddhist but it's impossible to tell based on his unwillingness to profess his faith. Cheated on his first wife and known womanizer for much of his early to middle ages.

    It seems that most people here claim that he's a Christian because:


    1) He was in the military,

    2) He was a prisoner of war,

    3) He now claims to be against abortion, and

    4) Last but not least, he's a Republican.

    I'm sorry but That's not good enough according to the Bible.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wonder.... would you mind doing a similar, completely objective, unbiased evaluation of Barack Obama's faith?

    Please include the part about doing a little "blow" and voting to deny babies born alive during an abortion medical care and embracing his pastor's liberation theology and, if you want, you might even include an evaluation of the effect of being raised as a Muslim in Indonesia.

    I would read it if you would write it.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yup, me, too. Compare apples to apples, etc. Might be an interesting read.
     
  4. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Adam bit the apple and see what it did for him. I wouldn't bite... ! :laugh:
     
  5. windcatcher

    windcatcher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    If I recalled, when I became a member of the BB forums a question was asked regarding my statement of faith. It's open to the public and all on this board.

    Some of us here (on the BB forums....not necessarily this thread), have less impressive statements than McCain's simple statement.
    Waiting.

    How about it BaptistBeliever?

    Pony up or enjoy eating your foot!
     
  6. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,609
    Likes Received:
    157
    Interesting, the first two responders tried to derail the thread into a discussion of Obama's spirituality.

    Give both men a break. OK? None of us are totally correct when it comes to our believe in God.
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Yup, so typical here. Let's not talk about problems with McCain, lets derail the thread and talk about how bad Obama is.

    If this stuff is all true it is not surprising. I think it is obvious that far too many people think part of the gospel is voting Republican.
     
  8. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    :laugh: :wavey: :laugh:


    That includes Muslim's... :thumbs:
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,240
    Likes Received:
    2

    I take issue with this because of the last phrases...

    I'd like to see either you or BB show me any evidence of this. I've seen people claim Palin is a Christian, but McCain ? Who's done it, and listed those reasons ? It is the most repulsive misrepresentation of people on tha BaptistBoard that I have seen recently. It's an absolute lie.

    And I think it's an EXCELLENT challenge.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Some here have been told that to vote third party is not a godly decision.

    If the shoe doesn't fit, my brother, than please don't try to put it on. I appreciate your insight and balance.

    I guess I read the list you quoted in a different light, not as fact, but as satire. Christians do tend to forgive a lot if the candidate, McCain or anyone else, is in the right party and 'not as bad' as the other guy.
     
    #10 NaasPreacher (C4K), Oct 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2008
  11. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0

    Yes, I would mind. That topic has been kicked around on this board ad nauseum. I just thought I would post similar information about the other candidate. I don't claim to know whether either candidate is a born again Christian. I do think that there are honest questions about each one. At least most of my information came from "Christianity Today." Most of the information on Obama came from questionable far right Republican web sites.
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    Perhaps, then, you could find the unbiased, objective article from "Christianity Today" that addresses the part about doing a little "blow" (directly from Obama's book: not questionable Republican websites) and...

    voting to deny babies born alive during an abortion medical care (directly from the records of the Ill. state Senate and video from same; not from questionable Republican websites)...

    and embracing his pastor's liberation theology (directly from Obama's book: not questionable Republican websites) and,

    an evaluation of the effect of being raised as a Muslim in Indonesia (directly from Obama's book: not questionable Republican websites).

    I just want to find someone willing to do an objective, unbiased evaluation of Obama before election day.

    I was hoping you were the one, since you were so unbiased and objective in evaluating McCain.

    Can such a person be found?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  13. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think this is possible, everyone in the country is either pro or against Obama. I don't think there is one neutral American but I could be wrong.
     
  14. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    I probably wouldn't have responded at all on this thread except for the early responses. This is a legitimate question. Not one that can be shoved under the rug by turning the mirror around. I'm supporting McCain, but if we can't say that he's got warts then we are indeed hypocrites.



    I think there are people of genuine faith in politics. I think that anyone in politics must consider constituents of faith or they won't last long in the political arena. They are a powerful force (obviously diversified and complicated as we've shown).

    To say "I'm saved and forgiven" may indeed be enough of a testimony. It may also not be enough. We all know how easy it is to talk the talk. Some elaboration would have helped us to know. We just don't have enough. It's not really our call to make unless we are in the position to personally speak with/witness to him and that probably won't be happening - for most of us . . . Having said that, I do know why it's come up - there and here. The GOP courts the religious right. It's bound to come up. So when it does, you better have a real answer then, hadn't you.
     
  15. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
  16. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tell me your understanding about McCain's faith in the interest of being open minded.
     
  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me be perfectly honest with you.

    In this election, I will not make my choice based on McCain's faith, or lack there of, or Obama's for that matter. We can look at faith, if you like, but I care about their political philosophy. I care about their positions. I care about their character. I care about their history, both inside and outside of politics.

    There are many things about McCain that has troubled me over the years. There is no question in my mind, however, that he is honorable, humble, and deeply committed to doing what he thinks is right for the country. He has the experience to be president.

    What has bothered me is that few people in the media care about Obama's philosophy, positions, character or history. Very few people, that I have seen, who are supporting Obama, have given any of these things serious thought.

    McCain cheated on his first wife and divorced her nearly 3 decades ago. He doesn't try to run from the facts. He says it was his greatest personal failure. He has been humbled by his failure, which is clear in the way he responds. Despite that, many Christians will not vote for McCain.

    What was Obama's greatest personal failure? Do you remember his answer? Neither do I, because he said nothing of substance.

    Obama says in his book that he "did a little blow" while in college. That means he used cocaine. We don't know how extensive his use was. We don't know if he used crack cocaine once and never again. Or if he used powered cocaine continuously until elected to the state senate. Or if he became addicted to cocaine and had to be treated for substance abuse. We don't know. Why?????? Because no one in the media wants to ask the question. No one supporting Obama cares enough to look at it closely, or they are afraid they might find something that will make them think twice about their support.

    Christianity Today will write extensively of McCain's moral failures in his first marriage. They have given Obama a pass on cocaine use. That puts their objectivity into question.

    FTR, I know there has been unfair criticism of Obama on the internet and on the BB. That is unfortunate, because there are a lot of legitimate questions that go unanswered because they are lumped in with the unfair criticism.

    peace to you:praying:
     

Share This Page

Loading...