Tares of the field

Wopik, answer a question for me. Are you a "commandment keeper"?

I try to keep the Ten Commandments the best I can.

I try to live a righteous life. We all should.

Jesus said the righteous will inherit eternal life (Matt 25:46).

==========================================

Commandment keeping people believe, not that the law will save you, but that the law defines righteousness; and if you are going to live a righteous life before God, you have to keep the Ten Commandments.
==================================================

That's what I thought you'd say, Wopik. You're making a mistake. The righteousness that gets one into the kingdom is not the righteousness that comes from the law. It is the righteousness of Christ imputed to the account of the believer that gets someone into the kingdom.
You said, "law defines righteousness". No it doesn't. Jesus Christ does. The law is called holy, good, righteous and all of that. It is also called weak, imperfect, and the ministration of death. Here's how Paul said it...

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law ; ye are fallen from grace. Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

It couldn't be any plainer.

But, that said, God does expect His children to obey His commands. No question about it. And He equips them to be able to through the power of the Holy Spirit. In fact, one who lives a life of disobedience to God has no right to call themself a child of God. That is one of the proofs that the person is not a child of God.

So, where's the rub between me and you? You want me to quit going to church on Sunday and start going on Saturday. You say if I don't, that I'm breaking the law, which is one of the proofs that I'm not a child of God.

Let's see. In the last 1 year and 7 months there have been about 82 Saturdays. You'd say that I've transgressed the law 82 times in that period. And that I couldn't belong to God, because I don't obey Him.

Wopik, I don't think you're a Baptist. I think you are a part of an Armstrong group. Am I right? If I am, then that means in the last 1 year and 7 months you have affirmed that you are an active member of a Baptist church every time you post on this Baptist only side of the forum. Those are the rules. In your profile you say you are a Baptist. You've posted 188 times. If you are not an active member of a Baptist church, that means that you have broken the 9th commandment 188 times in the period of time that you'd say I've broken the 4th 82 times. Does this mean that I'm twice as righteous as you? No. I'm not making light of this, nor trying to be funny. I'm serious. If I thought for a minute that God expected me to only go to church on Saturday, you'd better believe I'd be there.
But for me to pretend to believe that - when I don't, based on my own Bible study - would make me a religeous hypocrite, wouldn't it.

Wopik, the fourth commandment is not done away with. And it's not transferred to Sunday, either. This commandment is the only one out of the ten that has both a moral aspect and a ceremonial aspect to it. The ceremonial aspect of the fourth commandment was a shadow. Pointing to Christ.

Ceremonial. Root word "ceremony".
cer-e-mo-ny 1.A formal act or set of acts prescribed by ritual, custom or etiquette. 2. A conventionally polite social gesture or act. 3. Strict observance of formalities or etiquette. [< Lat. caerimonia , religious rite.]

American Heritage Dictionary

Here, read this, Wopik...

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest , any of you should seem to come short of it.

Can you go to the Old Testament and pinpoint this promise that Hebrews says is left to us?

Jim

 

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

The righteousness which saves is imputed righteousness which accompanies faith in Jesus Christ and not the doing of the deeds of the law (mitzvoth).

HankD

 

(Rom 10:1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
(Rom 10:2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
(Rom 10:3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(Rom 10:4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

"End"...

5056 - Greek
5056 telos tel'-os
from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid):--+ continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare 5411.

The goal of righteousness that the law sought to obtain, is obtained in the Person of Christ. Christ is the end ( the goal; the thing aimed at ) of the law. For what purpose? Righteousness.

This brings us to one of the points in Galatians that Garner Ted wouldn't touch...

(Gal 5:22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
(Gal 5:23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

There you see it again. When one accepts the righteousness of Christ in place of their own righteousness, the Holy Spirit comes in. When the Holy Spirit comes in, what you see above is the fruit of it. When one has the fruit of the Spirit, they ARE practicing righteousness. The Spirit of God DEFINES righteousness. When one lives in the fruit of, and practices the life of the fruit of the Spirit; "against such there is no law". Because none is needed.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Jim.

 

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest , any of you should seem to come short of it.

O.K. I know about the Greek word "sabbatismos" For me, it doesn't matter what a particular Bible's center column says. You may know what Strong's says about it...

4520 - Greek
4520 sabbatismos sab-bat-is-mos'
from a derivative of 4521; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven):--rest.

But I was asking you about the specifics of the text itself. Let's not worry about arguing about the meaning of a home-made word. From what I understand, that word not only is not used anywhere else in scripture, it can't be found anywhere else in any Greek writing. It seems that the writer of Hebrews "made it up" to try to express what he was trying to convey. So, if that's true, let's let the text of the passage affix the meaning. Fair enough?

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Seems before anyone can assign meaning to that unique word, they first have to understand the passage that it appears in.

So, again, can you turn to the Old Testament and point out what promise the writer of Hebrews says is left to us?

Jim

 

Hi Wopik, you wrote...

Are you serious ? A person is not allowed to use a word only once?

According to your logic, if you find a word in the Bible used only once, it is not valid ? I've never heard this logic before.

Hehe. Good try wopik. You know what I mean.

“The words ‘Sabbath rest” translate the [Greek] noun ‘sabbatismos,’ a unique word in the New Testament. This term appears also in Plutarch...

The term "sabbath rest" appears in Plutarch. The word "sabbatismos" doesn't.

Tell you what, though. I don't have an argument with the translation of the word as "A sabbath rest". That translation is correct. And so is Strong's "the repose of Christianity".

But, I'm an old hand at the debating tactics from you folks, and I won't be sidetracked. I've asked this question twice, now...

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest , any of you should seem to come short of it.

Can you go to the Old Testament and pinpoint this promise that Hebrews says is left to us?

Well? Is it that you can't answer the question; or just won't?

Jim

 

Oh, and Jamieson, Fauset and Brown is nothing more than someone's opinion. And I know which agenda they push.

Jim

 

I do not know off hand. The Bible commentary I use had nothing specific for that particular sentence, either.

Do you get your doctrine from a commentary? If you don't know off hand, don't you think it might be worth doing the hard work to dig it out? Reckon it might be important?

It may have some reference to Israel crossing the Jordan River after their forty years of wandering.

I will be waiting for your explanation.

I won't be explainin'. If it's not interesting enough to you to understand the author of Hebrews argument and theology; and not interesting enough to make you want to find out, it'd be a waste of my time talking about it.
You may remember the old adage; "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

You've already shown you ain't thirsty, so I ain't making the long walk to the river.

Jim