Tasted death for every man ! 2

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Heb 2:9

    9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    The KJV translators added the word man, which is ok, its appropriate, for it was men for whom He tated death for, and it does apply to every man He did actually taste death for, but the every man is every man of the Childre that God had given Him Heb 2:13-14

    13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

    And Vs 14

    14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death[Vs 9] he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    He took on flesh and blood because the Children He would die for partook of it, and they were the Children given to Him from Vs 13, which also makes them His Seed Isa 53:10

    10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed/Children, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    So He tasted death for every man of His Seed, also His brethren. He tasted death for the Children who in their first natural head adam did transgress Gods Law to begin with, He became like His Children/Brethren that through Death [as a Surety for them] and that death of Heb 2:9 He would destroy him that had the power of death, the devil, which for them would render death by him inoperative, and releases them from spiritual death, then are the children of God manifested that He tasted death for 1 Jn 3:8

    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    Thats how we also know who the every man of Heb 2:9 is, they whom He tasted death for are delivered from spiritual death and ruin caused by the devil. If anyone whom Christ tasted death for remains in spiritual death, that means the devil rendered Christ's death inoperative, instead of the other way around !
     
  2. BobRyan

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    The text does not say "He only tasted death for the saved"

    The text does not say "every man just means everyone who decides to become a child of God"

    you do.

    But we can't simply "quote you" to justify our doctrine "sola scriptura".
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    Did you read and understand the points I made ?
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Yes.

    For example "Thats how we also know who the every man of Heb 2:9 is, they whom He tasted death for are delivered from spiritual death and ruin caused by the devil. If anyone whom Christ tasted death for remains in spiritual death, that means the devil rendered Christ's death inoperative, instead of the other way around ! "

    But you are left with the fact that 1 John 2:2 does not support your view.

    John 1:11 "He came to His own and.." then what happened in your model? vs what actually happened in John 1:11??

    "His own received Him not".

    Is 5
    3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.
    4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    br

    Then you are admitting that you believe the devil renders Christ's death inoperative for some He tasted death for.

    Thats the only alternative if you believe 1 Jn 2:2 means that Christ tasted death for all without exception, which it does not even say !

    How can you be a believer in Christ when you believe the devil's power is greater than His and defeats the purpose of His death ?

    Now go to the other points made and show you understood them !
     
    #5 savedbymercy, Jul 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2015
  6. BobRyan

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    Great text by the way.

    "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2
     
  7. BobRyan

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    In this post - I challenge the model you are using with this question -




    You did not answer the question put to your model - so you failed to understand the point made.

    "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11.

    Your model only survives by ignoring the details in the texts that are put to it.
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    Did you understand the points I made!
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    He is the propitiation for our sins:

    1 Jn 2:1-2

    My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Now many in false religion have hijacked this verse to teach the lie, that it states, Jesus Christ has died for all mankind without exception, but folks that again is a lie, and heres why ! The world here or the whole world, is a world of individuals [both jew and gentile] that Gods Wrath against them for their sins has been propitiated, or appeased, in fact He is at Peace with them, all causes for His Wrath against them has been taken away, and we know this is not the case with all men without exception because of simple scriptures like Jn 3:36

    36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    That word abideth is the greek word menó and means:

    I remain, abide, stay, wait; with acc: I wait for, await.

    The wrath of God is remaining or staying upon that one ! Its also in the present tense !

    These individuals are permanently remaining under Gods Wrath, so it is absolutely impossible for anyone of them can be part of that Whole World of 1 Jn 2:2

    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Look, Gods wrath comes upon men for one just reason, sins Eph 5:5-6

    5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

    6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

    Because of what things cometh the wrath of God ? Look at the List of things in Vs 5, it tells you, those are sins !

    Yet another scripture to consider is Rom 1:18

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    These men cannot possibly be of the world of 1 Jn 2:2, no way ! Because Gods wrath for them against their ungodliness [Rom 5:6] and unrighteousness [1 Pet 3:18] it has already fell upon Christ on their behalf, and so God in Justice is merciful unto their unrighteousness Heb 8:12

    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    See that ? He is Merciful to their sins, not wrathful !
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    He is the propitiation for our sins: 2

    Now I know many shall object and argue, that those under Gods wrath in Jn 3:36 are unbelievers, those who have no faith, which is True, but thats why they remain unbelievers, because they are under Gods wrath. You see its not faith that propitiate Gods wrath against one sins, unless we are talking about the Faith/Faithfulness of Jesus Christ when He satisfied Gods Law and Justice for our sins, hence He is propitiated by Christ's faithfulness unto death, and heres why.

    You see those Christ died for have their sins against God propitiated by His death, because even while they are active enemies in their minds, even unbelievers, they have been nevertheless reconciled to God Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    And by that, God is at Peace with them for Christs sake Col 1:20

    20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    He is the propitiation for our sins: 3

    Now this being reconciled to God by the death of Christ while being enemies/unbelievers, this could not be True if indeed they were under Gods Wrath as unbelievers as these are Jn 3:36

    36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    You see, it cant be both, one cannot be both reconciled to God as a unbelieving enemy, and under His wrath as a unbelieving enemy ! So the difference must be the death of Christ for one and not the other. This means that the reconciled enemy by the death of Christ has already had Christ's Meritorious Death applied to their case and cause, while being an enemy ! This proves that faith in Christ is not necessary to have Christ's Death applied to them personally ! The death of Christ has to have been already applied since they are reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers, hence showing that God has for them been propitiated ! That cannot be true however of those in Jn 3:36 under Gods wrath !
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    He is the propitiation for our sins: 4

    Now understand this, reconciliation and propitiation are two sides of the same coin, the very same blessing, for the word reconciliation in Heb 2:17

    17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    Tis the greek word hilaskomai and means:


    I.to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self

    A.to become propitious, be placated or appeased


    B.to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful



    II.to expiate, make propitiation for

    Thats why one is reconciled to God while enemies because God for them by Christ's death has been appeased, placated, propitiated ! And of course the word is akin to hilasmós which means:

    "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin") – properly, to extend propitiation, showing mercy by satisfying (literally, propitiating) the wrath of God on sin; "to conciliate, appease,

    And it also properly means to have mercy on, show favor to, pardon and forgive.

    He gives us this along with Christ because Christ satisfied both Law and Justice Rom 8:32

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    That word give charizomai means:

    I show favor to, (b) I pardon, forgive, (c) I show kindness.

    , to extend favor ("grace"), freely give favor to grant forgiveness (pardon).

    ("favor that cancels") is used of God giving His grace to pardon. This is freely done and therefore not based on any merit of the one receiving forgiveness.

    literally means, "to exercise grace, freely show favor," i.e. willingly ("graciously") bestow.]

    This Favor, Blessing and Pardon comes with God delivering up His Son for us Rom 8:32 ! Note: This also speaks to Justification ,acquittal !

    So to be reconciled as enemies Rom 5:10, God has had His wrath appeased, satisfied, propitiated, and that while us being enemies and unbelievers, So consequently those unbelievers in Jn 3:36, which are under Gods wrath, they cannot be of those #1 Reconciled to God by Christ's death, while enemies, nor #2 be of those who belong to the whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 !
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    The World of the Elect !

    2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Many false teachers have hijacked this scripture and twisted it to a most God dishonoring conclusion, that it speaks of all men without exception, yet that is a lie, for one, because all men without exception have the blessing of non imputation of sin, its reserved for the blessed of God as here Ps 32:1-2

    Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

    2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

    Again Paul Rom 4:7-8

    7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

    8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    For many are going to die in their sins Jn 8:24

    I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    Thats not even possible for the men and women in the world of 2 Cor 5:19 because no sin is charged to them, they are blessed, to be envied !

    But now who specifically are these who have not their sins charged to them, or against them ? Why its Gods Elect Rom 8:33

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    The question is "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?"

    This is stated because of non imputation of sin Rom 4:8;2 Cor 5:19.

    The word impute in 2 Cor 5:19 is the greek word logizomai and does mean:

    I reckon, count, charge with; reason, decide, conclude; think, suppose.

    So the verse could properly read 2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not charging their trespasses/sins unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Those of that world, God will not charge them with their sins, He most definitely will not lay sin to their charge as indicated in Rom 8:33 !

    Both give credit to the death of Christ being the reason why for 2 Cor 5:19, the non imputation is because they have been imputed/charged to Christ, so making Him to be sin for them 2 Cor 5:21 and Rom 8:33 looks to Christ dying in Vs 34

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    God will not charge them because He charged them to Christ and He died for them already, because corresponding with 2 Cor 5:21 He was made sin for them, or a Sin Offering ! And so its easy to conclude who the World is of 2 Cor 5:19, Its the world of Gods elect whom He will not charge with sin Rom 8:33, because Christ died for them Vs 34 !

    Non Imputation of sin, It has nothing to do with whether or not they believe, all that matters is that Christ died for them !1703
     

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