Tasted death for every man !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Heb 2:9

    9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    The false teachers have had a field day with their wilful ignorance and perversion of this text, Alleging that it teaches that Jesus Christ has by the Grace of God tasted death for all mankind without exception, and yet that is not what it says, but that He tasted death for[in behalf of] every or all . For the word man is not in the original, but granted we add the word man as did the translators, it still would read only that He tasted death in the behalf of every man, and not all mankind without exception, in the context it would be for every man He tasted death or died for. Simply put, He tasted death for everyone He died for or in the behalf of !

    Now before I expose this vicious, Christ dishonoring perversion of scripture, let it be known that those who espouse this ungodly view, are saying therefore that Christ's tasting of Death in the behalf of those He died for, that His Death for them in and of itself did not save them, and for this reason such a view must be viewd as antichrist, meaning against Christ, its against His Saving Death, in and of itself. So when He said it is finished upon His death, that in and of itself did not save anyone, their salvation was not finished, their sins were not forever put away and forgiven, no not yet according to them , for they must still do something, instead of having something revealed to them as already done !

    Now lets look at other ways how this perversion of scripture is error !

    By the simple fact that the words every man are to mean every man of mankind without exception. Lets look at Luke 16:16

    The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

    Now would every man here mean every single man of mankind without exception presseth into the Kingdom of God ? I think not !
     
  2. billwald

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    Then God's intent was that the majority of humans should end up in Hell. How can this sort of god be objectively called "good?" I suppose the thread author can call God "good" because he thinks God has bailed him out and isn't concerned about the people whom God created FOR Hell.
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    jesus death was sufficient to have been able to pay for the sin debt owed God for ALL who would ever live, but ONLY benefits those whom would be saved by it, by those elected out beforehand...

    the death is the basis to justify us before God, and is applied towards us when we place faith in christ!
     
  4. savedbymercy

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    Tasted death for every man ! Cont



    Secondly,it is recorded in the same letter to the same people that Christ did bare the sin of many Heb 9:28

    28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Now the writer is speaking is speaking of the same exact death as in Heb 2:9, whereas here he is stating that Christ tasted or bare the sins of many or The Many ! Not all mankind without exception. This verse corresponds with the Prophet Isa 53:12

    12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    The Many was limited then as it is now in Heb 9:28, and so the all or every man of Heb 2:9mis limited!
     
  5. Michael Wrenn

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    Yes indeed. There's perversion here alright -- but it's not the perversion the original poster is speaking about; it's this view.
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    Thirdly- If Heb 2:9 meant that Christ tasted or experienced death for or in behalf of every man without exception, then the consequences would be, that once and for all, all without exception have been sanctified by that Offering ! Heb 10:10

    By the which will we [Whom He tasted Death for Heb 2:9] are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    For His Tasting Death and His Offering of His Body are one and the same !

    The word sanctified here is in the perfect tense in the greek, the Perfect tense is described as such :

    This tense is like the aorist in that it also sees the action as taking place in a point in time. The difference is that the perfect also emphasizes continuing results. It denotes completed action in the past with finished results in the present.

    Everyone Christ died for In Purpose sets them apart for the service of God ! Yes, even though they are born as sinners as other men and women, yet they have in distinction from other men, already in God's Purpose been set apart for Good works that He hath before ordained that they should walk therein Eph 2:10.

    Now, we know that scripture never teaches that all men without exception have been set apart for God's Holy Purpose. In fact, the scriptures speaks of them who set themselves apart , having not the Spirit Jude 1:19


    These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

    Those who teach that Heb 2:9 means that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, are of those who have seperated themselves and have not the Spirit, because if they did have the Spirit, they would not teach error of that nature !
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    Tasted death for every man ! Cont



    Fourthly,If Christ tasted death for everyman without exception, then quite frankly, every man without exception shall be saved by His Life, for this is true because scripture says those whom Christ died in behalf of, were, even while being enemies, reconciled to God, and how ? By the Death [tasting Death for them] of His Son Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    The promise of shall be saved by His Life, is for them who have been reconciled by His Death. Now if we know all men without exception are not going to be saved by His Life, its a perversion of scripture to force Heb 2:9 to be all men without exception in mankind !
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    Fifthly, If He tasted death for every man without exception, then by that, He became the Captain of their Salvation in bringing them to Glory, because of His Suffering or Tasting of Death ! Heb 2:9-10

    9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings

    Now His Sufferings and Tasting of Death are the same things, and by it, He becomes the Captain of their Salvation, which Brings them to Glory !

    The word bringing in vs 10 is the greek word agō and it means:


    to lead, take with one

    a) to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal

    b) to lead by accompanying to (into) a place

    c) to lead with one's self, attach to one's self as an attendant

    d) to conduct, bring

    e) to lead away, to a court of justice, magistrate, etc.

    2) to lead,

    a) to lead, guide, direct

    b) to lead through, conduct to: to something

    c) to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

    Its a strong word , and its used here also 1 Thess 4:14

    For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    It denotes His determination Jn 10:16

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Its the same also as His Gathering them Jn 11:50-52

    50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

    51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

    52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

    The word gather together is the same Greek word ago, just has the prefix sun which means with !

    And how does He do this ? Vs 51 That He should die, or Taste Death ! And By that, He brings or gathers together all those He tasted death for, The Many Sons Heb 2:10

    10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    They were Sons because they were Chosen in Him, and He Represented in His Life and Death God's Son's Chosen in Him the Son !

    Those who carelessly and flippantly teach Heb 2:9 as meaning all men without exception, have no excuse i the Day of Judgment fir their willful twisting of scripture to glorify the freewill of man !
     
  9. billwald

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    Say a person wanted to breed a certain characteristic in pure bred Irish Setters. In every litter he would select the best example and kill all the rest. Some litters, he would kill them all. Would this describe a proper dog breeder and all around good citizen? Someone you would want your daughter to marry?

    (Don't expect Targus to understand)
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    2 Pet 3:9

    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Another scripture that the man of sin followers, those who wrest scripture to their own destruction, like to employ to teach the great lie, that God Loves all mankind without exception and desires them to come to Repentance so they won't perish. Now that this is not the proper sense is seen in the fact that Peter had just wrote in the same letter Chapter 2:12

    12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    That there were false teachers, according to God's Purpose were made or born to be taken and to be destroyed ! 2 Pet 2:12, so why would God be patiently waiting them to Repent unto life ?
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    2 Pet 3:9

    Secondly, Why would God be patiently waiting for all men without exception to repent, when many men are being reserved for Judgment 2 Pet 2:9

    9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

    Reserve the unjust, those Christ did not die for, unto the day of judgment to be punished !

    The book of Job speaks to this also Job 21:30

    That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.
     
  12. Jon-Marc

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    There are several scriptures that prove that Jesus died for ALL and provided salvation for ALL, but not all will be saved due to unbelief.

    God did NOT (as some believe) pick and choose who He would and would not save--except by our response (or lack thereof) to His call, "Come unto me all ye who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Note the words "ALL YE"; it does not say, "all ye among the chosen few."

    There is also ""Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." "Whosoever" means ANYONE! I am convinced that Jesus will save anyone by the fact that He saved me. :godisgood:
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    jm

    In your imagination !
     
  14. Winman

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    If Jesus did not die for every man, how do you know that he died for you?

    Perhaps Jesus did not die for you, you are not one of the elect, you cannot possibly be saved.

    So how do you know Jesus died for you?

    Tell us how you have this inside information.
     
  15. savedbymercy

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    This thread is not about me, but about what Christ accomplished. However to answer your question in general about how one knows they are saved, Read this Thread !

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=78636

    Just begin from the OP,Thanks !
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    Those who believe and teach that Christ's Blood does not save all for whom He shed it for, they deny the Truth of the Testimony of these Rev 5:9-10

    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    None of these singing this New Song, would ever state that Christ's Blood failed to Redeem unto God everyone it was shed in behalf of, out of every kindred, tongue and people and nation !

    And their witness would be and is a Testimony against all who Teach that Christ dishonoring doctrine !
     
  17. billwald

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    >This thread is not about me

    This thread IS about you BECAUSE if Jesus did not die for you THEN you are unregenerate and have no business posting on a Christian forum.
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    We know in whom we have belived in, had the inner testimony from the Spirit, and conform that by love for the saints and his word!
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    John 12:32 is True !



    John 12:32

    32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    If here, the conjunction ean, should be translated when or since I am going to be Lifted up, for the if should not denote a possibility but a certainty of Him being lifted up [On the Cross], for that had been determined by God Acts 2:23

    23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified[Lifted up] and slain:

    Lk 22:22

    And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

    Now what does Jesus mean by His utterance in Jn 12:32 ? Jesus is speaking of it's efficacious results, that is the results of His Death or having been lifted up, and the results are , that all for whom He was lifted up in the behalf of, it will cause them to come to Him in Faith ! Ps 65:4

    Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

    The word here approach means:

    to come near, approach, enter into, draw near

    a) (Qal) to approach, draw near

    b) (Niphal) to be brought near

    c) (Piel) to cause to approach, bring near, cause to draw near

    d) (Hiphil) to bring near, bring, present

    Yes it also means to bring, remember Jesus words Jn 10:16

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    The word bring here is the greek word ago and means:

    to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

    Now back to Jesus words in Jn 12:32, the word draw, what does it mean ? Its the greek word helkō and means:


    to draw, drag off

    2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

    You see the word impel here also, its a bringing by an inward power, that leads those that Christ was lifted up in behalf of , He is bringing them to Himself as stated He must do in Jn 10:16, which also says they which He must bring also shall hear His Voice ! Now, what is the Result of Hearing His Voice ? Rom 10:17

    So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Faith, that is the end result of Hearing the Word of God ! The word for word here is rhema and means:

    that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word

    So the Word here is the Living Voice of their Shepherd heard through the preach Gospel to them , which produces Faith ! Thats why I said that the end results of Christ's being Lifted up for those He was lifted up in behalf of, was that they shall be brought to believe in Him by Faith ! Now those of us who deny this, we have serious problems, and we are attempting by our unbelief to make Jesus out of a Liar !
     
  20. savedbymercy

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    John 12:32 is True ! cont



    Jesus is saying, all for whom He dies [be lifted up] He draws them to Himself and consequently they become His Followers. Lets understand something right now, the drawing Christ speaks of here and that if the Father Jn 6:44-45 is the New Birth. This drawing is not a mere external call to a choice or decision, but an inward impelling responding to the effectual call of the Gospel. This is that Newly Created Man, Begotten Again by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3, beginning his new life unto God. The drawing here is not the dragging of sinners dead in trespasses and sins, and at enmity with God, and being forced against their freewill, they kicking and screaming against it, but it is the willing submission of a person newly formed by His Power Ps 110:3

    Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

    They believe according to God's Power Eph 1:19

    19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

    They will be willing to follow Christ and serve Him because they are His Spiritual Seed Ps 22:30

    A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
     

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