Featured Tasted death for every man !

Well, I think it fits everyone with a mindset of the pharisee. No man can be saved from sin until they first see themselves as a sinner in need of a Savior. I think we agree on this.

 

Yes, I think we do.

 

ONLY seed that the Bible knows is the seed of Abraham, and that was Christ!

For all nations/peoples of the earth blessed by THAT seed, as paul said, seed dingular, NOT plurel!

 

These are subjective....all of them. They amount ultimately to "I know because I feel" "I KNOW"...from some internal witness. Charismatics "Know" a lot of things because of some internal witness of the Holy Spirit.

What a Calvinist can establish (as far as assurance goes) is only a high degree of probability....a very high degree of probability indeed, but they do not know they are "elect" inescapably. These are things which can indeed be pointed to by those who will cry "Lord, Lord"....but then Chist will say "depart for I never knew you". Calvinist doctrine teaches that God "knows" his elect of God's own mysterious will and purpose, and that Christ came to secure the Salvation of them and them alone. A Calvinist cannot point to I John 5, and claim that they "Know" (not deductively, or inescapably) that they are "elect" because they have fulfilled a condition..to wit: they have believed and confessed....Salvation and the atonement are applied in Calvinist thought unconditionally.

A Calvinist can mount a strong cummulative case for their own election by pointing to internal witness of the Spirit and loving one another and works and all of the "signs" which accompany Salvation...so can (presumably) those whom Christ said "depart from me for I never knew you"....But they cannot point to the condition of having placed faith in Christ and repented of sin and turned towards him.

That is the case Winman is making, and he is absolutely correct. You cannot "know" that You Personally were "known" of Christ, and that you were one of the "elect" for whom he died....that is something which is vis-a-vis Calvinism, a mystery exclusive to God's own will and purpose. You can only make an inductive argument based upon probability.

Accept that it is a draw-back to Calvinist theology (it is not a slam-dunk one which disproves it though)...so what?...there are draw-backs to all Systems of thought. It is when one is personally capable of owning the weaknesses in their own Theology that they can test it and know its strengths and learn more. One cannot Grow, unless they are willing to own the short-comings in their own system of belief.

 

That and the seed of the Serpent, the seed of the wicked one...see Gen. 3: 15 and Matt 13:38...But they are not a physical seed as is Christ, the "seed of the woman".

 

A changed life is not a feeling! It is the difference between an old creature and a new creation in Christ in true holiness and righteousness - a new man! That is the effect of the gospel when it comes in power and in the Spirit. Look at the remainder of 1 Thess. 1:5 as it points out a different kind of man not miracles, signs and wonders.

Their knowledge is not Biblical based whereas the knowledge the Bible speaks of is Biblical based. Their experiential knowlegdge VIOLATES and CONTRADICTS the word of God and that is the difference between "LYING wonders" and Biblical salvation which has to do with NEW BIRTH - CHANGE OF INTERNAL NATURE not external miracles signs and wonder.

Paul disagree with you - "BEING CONFIDENT" is his introduction to personal assurance of salvation (Philip. 1:6) due to the gospel of Christ (No miracles signs and wonders even mentioned in Philippians chapter one with the gospel).

Paul diagrees with you as the very term "assurance" is stated in regard to the Gospel change of character in 1 Thes. 1:4-5.

They merged "Lord, Lord" with "have we not done...." as the FOUNDATION of their hope of entrance into heaven. The difference between these miracle working professors is the FOUNDATION upon which their house was built. Christ and his work versus the sand or MIXTURE of works and faith!

Doing the revealed will of the Father in order to enter heaven is spelled out in clear words in Matthew 5:20 and the righteousness necessary to exceed the Pharisees to enter heaven is spelled out in Matthew 5:48 - "Be ye therefore perfect EVEN AS your Father in heaven is perfect" - WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET THAT KIND OF RIGHTEOUSNESS? Not from YOUR good works that is for sure.

What Calvinists are you talking about? Jesus told those in Matthew 7:23 that he "NEVER knew" them not that he knew them once and then didn't know them thereafter. He is not talking about prescience because he knows all mankind thoroughly. He is not talkiing about omniscience because he knows all mankind that way. He is talking about God's eternal purpose of salvation or the elect - Rom. 8:28-32 where EVERY SINGLE ONE He foreknew "according to His purpose" (v. 28) is predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ and EVERY SINGLE ONE predestinated is called, justified and glorified - what can you say about that (v. 31)? I will tell you what you will say - you don't believe it!

What kind of Calvinist are you speaking of? Biblical Calvinist believe the MEANS of salvation is elected as much as the persons of salvation or have you never read 2 Thessalonians 2:13????

13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

They were chosen TO salvation not BECAUSE OF salvation.

They were chosen THROUGH santification of the Spirit AND belief of the truth not without it!

God called them "by our gospel TO the obtaining of the glory" not WITHOUT or APART from it.

You may be speaking of HYPER-Calvinism.

Paul says you can and he says it clearly "KNOWING.....YOUR ELECTION OF GOD" and then says how you can know it - 1 Thes. 1:4-5. I will side with Paul.

 

Are you joking???? 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 clearly and explicitly states the means of salvation is as chosen as the persons of salvation. It does address your objection that my position does not include repentance and faith in regard to election "TO" salvation.

So, there are perameters that Paul can know they are the elect but no one else can use the same perameters he REVEALS to them for his basis of knowing their election? How oxymoronic is that kind of rationale? You are really hard up for a response here?????? If Paul knows their elect by this criteria and reveals the criteria to them upon which his knowlege of their election is based then do you really believe that this criteria is reserved for Paul alone to them alone and not for other readers of this epistle then as well as now??? If you are that hard pressed to escape the obvious - ok!

 

What are those 2 other 'seeds?"

 

They are not two "others"...they are one and the same....and they are not understood in precisely the same sense as the "seed of the woman" (as physical). As Christ is whom you mentioned. They refer to all of the children of the devil...Their "Father". It also possibly refers to the anti-Christ, (secondarily) but I have insufficient knowledge myself to claim that.

 

the sure sign to a calvinist that one has been saved, is one of the so called elect is that one has received jesus, placed faith in him, having a new nature, confirmed by inner witness of the Holy Spirit and the testimony of the Word!

IF one is not saved, one could care less about the real jesus and real gospel!

called having a fallen nature!

 

WOW!!!!! Biblicist...listen to yourself...You just posed your own argument....literally, your own personal argument here:

And then you somehow ascribed it to ME, and then used it to attack anthing I might say...Here:

The Biblicist

 

You should have simply waited for me to respond to your previous post, wherein I would simply have said that I generally agree with your conclusion and that that was basically all I was contending to begin with....But, no....the Straw man....This will be posted....repeatedly.

You have accused me of Witchcraft, and denying Bible Truth....No one has yet shown such umbrage before for no reason whatsoever. Examine yourself.