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Featured Tasted death for every man !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I did not ascribe this argument to you. It was my argument against your philosophical line of thinking and then I anticipated what you might say in response and posted the additional response.

    What happened was that I forgot to change what I had in the "cut" and "paste" and accidently placed your heading on my words
     
    #62 The Biblicist, Jun 18, 2012
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  3. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Kind of odd to see two Calvinists debating, but you understood exactly the point I was making. No Calvinist can have real assurance of salvation, they cannot possibly know they are elect. They must look to their own works as evidence that they are saved, just as the false believer looked to his own wonderful works in Mat 7:21-23 as his assurance, but was not saved.

    The Arminian or non-Cal can KNOW he is elect because he can KNOW he has met the condition of salvation, which is to believe on Jesus Christ.

    A Calvinist cannot even know he has believed, because according to Reformed theology the unregenerate man cannot possibly understand what it is to believe. True saving faith is something the unregenerate is unable to do, or comprehend. If this is so, then how can any man know he has believed?

    Seeing all this is true, the scriptures refute Calvinism and support that unregenerate man is able to understand and actually believe.

    1 Jhn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    A non-Cal or Arminian can claim 1 John 5:13 as absolute assurance they are saved. Because we know we have believed (because we believe we are able to both understand and exercise faith), we know we have eternal life.

    A Calvinist cannot know if he has believed, because the unregenerate man cannot possibly know what it means to believe in Calvinism.

    Thank you for your honesty, it is very refreshing. :thumbsup:
     
    #63 Winman, Jun 18, 2012
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  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I have no idea what you are talking about! I never accused you of witchcraft. I never called you a liar. I said that your philosophical argument is calling the Bible a liar. It is your argument I am referring to.

    I do not see any consistent rational line of argument in Winman's assertion. 2 Thessalonians 2;13-14 demands that election of persons before the world began consisted also with election of means of salvation (effectual calling in connection with repentance and faith in the gospel) before the world began - equally so.

    This argument by Winman applies no more to my view salvation than his view of salvation because my view demands repentance and faith in the gospel as evidence of election as much as his view demands repentance and faith in the gospel as evidence of salvation. My view is the more consistent because it is inclusive of both and demands both equally but in a cause and effect relationship.
     
  5. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  8. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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  9. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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  10. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    O.K. Let's try again then....and merely from your own words, and in this singular post:

     
  11. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Calvinists pull one verse out of context in Romans 3, and declare men are unable to seek God.

    Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
    12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Do these verses say man is unable to attain righteousness through faith? No.
    Do these verses say man is unable to understand? No.
    Do these verses say man is unable to seek God? No.
    Do these verses say man is unable to do good? No.

    Fact is, there are many scriptures that show man is able to seek God.

    2 Chr 15:12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

    King Asa sought the Lord.

    2 Chr 20:3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.
    4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: even out of all the cities of Judah they came to seek the LORD.

    King Jehosphaphat sought the Lord, and not only him, but men from all the cities of Judah also sought the Lord.

    2 Chr 31:20 And thus did Hezekiah throughout all Judah, and wrought that which was good and right and truth before the LORD his God.
    21 And in every work that he began in the service of the house of God, and in the law, and in the commandments, to seek his God, he did it with all his heart, and prospered.

    King Hezekiah sought the Lord.

    Ezra 6:21 And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

    The children of Israel that came out of captivity with Ezra sought the Lord.

    The scriptures are clear that many men sought the Lord. Calvinism says no man seeks the Lord, this is contrary to much scripture.

    No, the scriptures say "the wicked" do not seek the Lord.

    Psa 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

    The wicked because he is proud will not seek the Lord, but not all men are proud, some are meek and humble, these persons seek the Lord.

    Psa 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

    So, Calvinists pull one verse out of context in Romans 3 where Paul was quoting Psalms 14 and was speaking of "fools" who say there is no God and falsely interpret this to mean all men are unable to seek God, while ignoring much scripture that shows men are not only able, but actually do seek the Lord.
     
    #71 Winman, Jun 19, 2012
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    think the prophets such as say jeremiah/Isaiah would disagree with you over this!
     
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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  14. Yeshua1

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  15. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    #75 HeirofSalvation, Jun 20, 2012
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  16. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    #76 The Biblicist, Jun 20, 2012
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  17. convicted1

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    Brother, you really need to stop being philosophical(sp?) on here....:smilewinkgrin:


    Good example.....
     
  18. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    .

    I would love to hear two things:

    1.) What you think the Premises are
    2.) Which specific "Biblical truths" it denies

    The argument was always about "Calvinism" if that fails to apply to your position....then one wonders why you are debating it....either you ARE a Calvinist, or you are not. The argument applies to Calvinism....Either you can continue to claim that it has nothing to do with "your" beliefs...and thus, it was never about you, or it applies to you as an argument levelled upon "Calvinism"....Which is it? You are trying to have it both ways.

    Which specific Biblical truth have you posed which anyone here has denied? Please quote them....or cease baseless accusation....As I have posted innumerable posts where I have quoted myself REPEATEDLY agreeing with every single Biblical statement you make.

    It IS the ONLY truth to the argument....it is also the sum total of all the argument itself was ever trying to convey.....That's it, that's all, nothing more...nothing less. That is the sum total of all the argument tries to demonstrate. Thus, it either does apply to you, (as a Calvinist) or it doesn't (as you aren't one).
     
  19. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    One premise is that the argument refers to a specific KIND of Calvinism, the KIND that denies that the means for salvation are as predestinated as the persons.

    The specific "Biblical" truth it denies is that God has predestinated/chosen the specific means for salvation (2 Thes. 2:13-14) and thus denies the Biblical basis for personal assurance in regard to UNCONDITIONAL election.

    Hence, my position on salvation no more denies personal assurance than his position on salvation.
     
    #79 The Biblicist, Jun 20, 2012
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  20. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Oh...O.K. then...that explains everything. :rolleyes:
     
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