Taught of the Lord - Jn. 6:45

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Jn. 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

    A. Whoever this "all" refers to, every single one will be taught of God

    1. The same Greek word translated "all" is translated "every man" in the very next phrase.

    2. To be "taught" by God is equal to "learneth" of him in the very next phrase

    3. Whoever "all" and "every man" refers to NONE FAITH TO COME to Christ
    "ALL TAUGHT...EVERY MAN.....cometh unto me"


    B. The Only Prophet that uses the same exact words is Isaiah:

    Isa 54:13 [B]And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD[/B]; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

    "all taught" in John 6:45 is further defined by Isaiah to be "all THY CHILDREN." In John 6:45 the same Greek term translated "all" is translated "every man" in the same verse. Jesus claims that "every man" or "all" who learn and hear come to him. Thus this proves He is referring to Isaiah 54:13 in reference to His elect/children.

    C. Jesus is quoting "prophet's" plural - Jeremiah 54:13-14

    Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    This teaching by the Father is INTERNAL REVELATION apart from "flesh and blood" instruction- "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts". This is why "every man" [gr. "all"] who learn and hear do come to Christ.

    "flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my Father" - Mt. 16:17

    "when it PLEASED GOD...revealed in me His Son, immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood ...." - Gal. 1:15,16

    Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:


    Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me

    D. All drawn/given do come to Christ - vv. 37-39,44-45; 65

    Hence, to be given is to be drawn is to be taught and "ALL" who are given do come (v. 37) and NONE LOST (v. 39).

    Hence, to be drawn is to be taught and "EVERY MAN" learned of God do come (vv. 44-45) and "all" who come NONE ARE LOST - v. 39.
     
  2. steaver

    steaver
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    We know the Elect are known of God before the foundation of the world. Do you have any understanding as to why God would not regenerate all the Elect at their first hearing of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

    I've often heard Christians say about a lost person, "Others and I have witnessed to him many times, he heard the gospel, why should I speak to him again about this?" , I personally know of people who rejected the gospel for years, and then later became born-again.

    How do you feel about witnessing over and over to those you know, friends and family, co-workers, etc.? Are you persistent about them knowing Jesus?
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    We are chosen "to salvation" before the world began but "through sanctification (set apart) of the Spirit and belief of the truth" in time and in God's timing and providential circumstance. For every purpose under heaven "THERE IS A TIME."

    I don't know that time God has determined for each of His elect. I only know my responsibility is to present the gospel every opportunity I am given.

    Some plant and other's water but in God's time He gives the increase. I may be just sowing the seed and you may be just watering it, but someone else (you or me also) may see the increase by God.
     
  4. steaver

    steaver
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    I asked a question awhile back on a TULIP debate thread that was not answered, I perceive you are a TULIP proponent so let me ask you;

    This pertains to your OP here since it deals with God drawing people to Himself, and according to your pov, God only draws those who will obey and follow.

    "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!" (Matt 23)

    Doesn't this scripture teach us that we have a choice? Jesus didn't say they "COULD" not (meaning they must first be regenerated according to TULIP teaching) , but rather they "WOULD" not (meaning they could have freely chosen to obey).

    From what I read here, Jesus wants to save Israel, but they WOULD not!
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    The problem is not with the will of man, but with what controls the will - the heart. It is the heart that is resistant 'at enmity with God and not subject to the will of God..." The same thing is expressed in Acts 7:51 "always resist the Holy Spirit." This is an act of choice.
     
  6. genesis12

    genesis12
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    The "heart" of man is the soulish, sinful nature that we all are born with. Prior to the revelation of God in the life of each of us, the only thing we can be is "at enmity with God." Abiding in the sinful nature we have no "choice" whatsoever. It is only when the Holy Spirit woo's man that he eventually becomes aware of "choice." At that point he can continue to relish his sinful nature, or confess Jesus as Savior. How many have been at the point of making that confession, perhaps in a church service or crusade, and walked away?

    One of the most challenging expressions I heard recently was that "sin is an alternate lifestyle," as if it is OK to live in sin while avoiding an eternity-long commitment to Jesus as Savior and Lord. No, not challenging..... on the one hand, disgusting, on the other cause for weeping and prayer.
     
    #6 genesis12, Jun 8, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2013
  7. The Biblicist

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    I understand you reasoning, but if an unregenerated heart could be simply "wooed" by the Spirit then it would not be necessary to be given a "new" heart (Ezek. 36:26) for it is "with the heart man believeth" (Rom. 10:8) and the old heart cannot be "wooed." I think perhaps you may be confusing worldly sorrow with the work of the Holy Spirit (2 Cor. 7:10).
     
  8. steaver

    steaver
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    I know TULIP declares man can only choose resistance unless God regenerates him first. But this does not appear to correspond with Matthew 23:37...

    "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!"

    In order to correspond with TULIP's teaching, wouldn't Jesus need to have said "and ye could not!" ?
     
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Ye would not so you could not!
     
  10. steaver

    steaver
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    I really thought you might have a good answer, I didn't get much of an answer the last time I brought it up on another thread either.

    What Jesus said here just doesn't fit in with TULIP's reasoning, it would be like a Father telling or asking a child to do something they are incapable of doing, and then punishing them because they would not or could not do it.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    NO ONE can call jesus their Lord apart from the work of the HS, as he HAS to grant sinners new hearts/minds that can and will respond to the invition jesus gives out to His own to "follow me!"
     

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