Teaching through Romans

Calvinism is the most twisted view of theology and should not be listed under the Christian name associated with Jesus our Lord.

 

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Originally posted by BobRyan:
From James' quote above...


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Eternal life....
That is, God will "render" eternal life to those who seek it in this manner. This is a great principle; and this shows that the apostle means by "their deeds," (Romans 2:6,) not merely their external conduct, but their inward thoughts, and efforts evinced by their seeking for glory, etc. For the meaning of the expression "eternal life," See Barnes "John 5:24".

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This is excellent as it points to MORE than the number of "toys in heaven" but rather TO HEAVEN ITSELF - to ETERNAL LIFE ITSELF -- not merely the number of toys you can have IN that eternal life.

It SHOWS the SUCCESSFUL cases not merely the FAILING Cases in Romans 2!

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1590/2.html#000027


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James you have done well to gloss over this point so far and ignore the inconvenient fact pointed out from YOUR OWN source.


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In response to the Calvinist post consisting of
"I laugh...
I laugh...
I Laugh"

I say "what antics are these to serve calvinism" --

And then we get "the response" -

Is it "Islam" to confess that "I laugh... I laugh.. I laugh" is NOTHING like a cogent, objective Bible based response to the serious problems I pointed out in Calvinism??

Is it going to be "Islam" every time one exposes a basic blunder in Calvinist antics?

I agree with your recommendation that we "stick to the word" instead of the antics being used here on behalf of Calvinism.

In Christ,

Bob

 

This is excellent as it points to MORE than the number of "toys in heaven" but rather TO HEAVEN ITSELF - to ETERNAL LIFE ITSELF -- not merely the number of toys you can have IN that eternal life.

It SHOWS the SUCCESSFUL cases not merely the FAILING Cases in Romans 2!

</font>[/QUOTE]James - when you quote that post above you are careful to do two things.

#1. Leave out ANY salient detail.
#2. Avoid actually responding TO THE POINT.

For example the Quote from A. Barnes above is YOUR QUOTE. The QUOTE says that The ETERNAL LIFE promised is REAL not just "toys in heaven".

You say it is MISLEADING to admit to this BASIC fact in the quote YOU GAVE!!

You appear to say that EVEN QUOTING your source with the highlights given above - is "bad"!!

Why not LOOK at the details in your OWN quote above and RESPOND to the DETAILS?

Why be so afraid of facts when it comes to defending CAlvinism that the only antic left on behalf of Calvinism is misdirection and ad hominem?? Why do that to Calvinism?

How "instructive" that you should feel the need to avoid YOUR OWN source when it comes to this singular, blatant, obvious "inconvenient fact"!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob,

sorry it has taken so long. I find himself very busy right now. I had a plan to post this long note that showed "numbers" in many ways. Time will not let me do this. Yet I must reply in someway.

1st, and this is what is so funny. You never read others post and you prove it in your reply. Bob...read and Notice this for the 1st time in 3 pages. you claim that this passage is NOT about the "number of toys we get in heaven. You claim this is misleading for any one to say this....yet Bob..you are the ONLY one that has said it.

Barns never said it..
I never said it..
No one on this tread has said it...other then you claiming i have.

Read bob..that is all it takes.

2nd. you claim victory in the false claim missed above..and post it over and over. This is the ONLY reply you have, and yet no word from the many passages in romans...chapter after chapter...verse after verse.. i posted. no reply to romans 3. you big point...no change that..the only point you post..is that of toys in heaven. yet NO one has said this...now hae they? i guess i have no point now that you have once again failed to adress the word of God, but claim victory in a false hope. This false hope is much like your false doctrine of "helping out" my God in Salavtion...for his could not pay for it all. Bob..get it now...and get it right.. It is now YOU that can save yourself. Your works are nothing

3rd...Salvation is Believeing in the right One...not Behaving in the right way. man...did i say that? I need to write that down..and use it someday. To many passages to post on this Bob. Read them on your own.

4th..if this passage is not toys..or deeds/works..what is it about?? you would know this if you read what was posted. Yet you did not..did you? this is plain to see in your 3 pages of claiming victroy in something that never happened. Notice i gave you a lot of time to reply..to change your post. but you still did not go back and read. you...in your pride felt you were right. being that your point is now flushed down the sewer with your works doctrine and the works that you hold onto with salvation..what do you now have to claim? NOTHING.


5th..you in your victory dance thought you had something good going. You thought..i kinda like this barns guy. hey james...show me some more of this. I posted as you asked....DEAD...NOTHING in reply. why? did you not like what you read this time? what you did post was more of the false claims of toys. sorry...no points for you. it seems like your whole agreement has fallen in. this always happens when you do not place your faith in the truth. Guess what Bob? your faith in your works will come crashing down too. Maybe not tell you stand before the Holy God that looks at your silly works and Laughs. you see bob...none of us has what it takes. I do not..nor do you. if you trust in yourself...you do not worship God. God does not need you or me Bob. God is God, for He is God. What he "wills" happens. He does not wait to see if you can help Him out. Salvation is of God, by God, In God, From God, is God. Not you Bob.

7th...BTW..this is not a game...no toys in this passage..nor any passage.

I need to go to church...

If i can..i'll get back on later.

In Christ..James

 

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

 

He 2BHizown

Spurgeon had bought the false doctrine of an aloof dictatorial tyrant pre-determining one's eternal destiny. While Calvin and Augustine preached this, Paul did not.

Paul tuaght that Christ died for “sinners” (I Tim. 1:15 ; Rom 5:6-8). The word “sinner” nowhere means “church” or “the elect,” but simply all of lost mankind.

Second, “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them” (2 Cor 5:19 ). Can it legitimately be asserted that “the world” means less than all humanity? Paul could have easily said “the elect” or “those who believe,” but the inspired text simply says “the world.”

1 Tim 2:6 says that Christ “gave Himself a ransom for all” and the immediate context (1 Tim 2:1-6) qualifies the term “all.” It refers not to all the elect, but to “all men” (2:1) and “all who are in authority” (2:2), and indicates that God desires “all men to be saved” (2:4).

I have not included John's teaching about universal atonement (I John 2:2) nor Peter's declaration of a universal offer of pardon (II Pet 3:9).

Augustine, Calvin and Spurgeon were only humans. They made mistakes. Should we listen to errant humans - OR - trust in God's Word?

Lloyd

 

Hey Ray

While I agree with you that Calvinism is an error, I must disagree with your extreme view about this error.

While in error, Calvinists still preach justification by faith in Jesus. While they have a warped view of God, they nonetheless should be considered in the mainstream of evangelical Christianity.

Arminians are quite a contrast. They preach justification by faith in Jesus PLUS human merit. This is the false gospel that Paul condemned in Galatians. It is arguable at the best whether or not CoCers, Catholics, etc are Christians. CoCers can be saved but it is in spite of their perverted gospel that denies Christ at every turn.

Yes! Calvin's pre-determinism is an error. But compared to a blatant denial of Christ, it is rather small.

Lloyd

 

Either you are posting in opposition by claiming to AGREE with me that Romans 2 "successes vs failures" ARE NOT limited to "the number of toys in heaven" (which is an odd way to complain) or you did not read my post.

I do not claim that the section of Barns is "misleading" - rather I claim that the section I quoted is ACCURATE!

YOU are the one that objects to my quoting Barns -- (YOUR OWN SOURCE) -- you are the one claiming that ENDORSING The point BARNS makes there -- is my great error!

Make up your mind -- pick a side that holds water and then support your case.

Arguing above that when I INSIST that Romans 2 is NOT about "The number of toys in heaven" you are IN AGREEMENT with me -- is not helping you defend your OWN prior attack against my post saying that it was incorrect!!


Having said that -- you obviously did not read all of Barnes quote.

What is the "False claim missed"?

Did you read Barne's statement you quoted in YOUR OWN post? If so mark the cases where Barnes starts by saying "THIS IS NOT SAYING..."

Barnes gets wrapped up several times trying to deny the eternal blessing -- the gospel blessing of the successful cases -- only to admit later that those who DO choose obedience ARE given what he admits to be the "reward" of eternal life.

Read it carefully. Pay attention to the details.

Barnes said it is about what God "will render" (the REWARD of eternal life given) to those who CHOOSE to obey.

In Christ,

Bob

 

This is excellent as it points to MORE than the number of "toys in heaven" but rather TO HEAVEN ITSELF - to ETERNAL LIFE ITSELF

Instead of saying "God will render to anyone He happens to feel like give eternal life... Eternal LIFE" Barnes makes the very ARMINIAN point that to those that choose to SEEK and to STRIVE to serve and obey God "in this way" God will RENDER Eternal Life!!

The RESULT - the future REWARD - the benefit RENDERED -- FOLLOWS from the choice MADE according to the text!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hey Bob

I see you still haven't learned to use CONTEXT in your faulty exegesis of Romans 2.

This passage falls in Paul’s first unit (1:18-3:19). The greater context demonstrates God’s judgment upon self-righteousness in every form. This includes perverts, chosen Israelites, moral Gentiles, and all humans in general. God’s judgment will be so conclusive that every mouth will be stopped (3:19).

Unsaved Gentiles will receive a reward for their good deeds as some form of lesser eternal punishment.

CONTEXT RULES!
Lloyd

 

Barnes said it is about what God "will render" (the REWARD of eternal life given) to those who CHOOSE to obey.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Lets take this nice and slow bob...maybe you can follow.

1)...in all the verse posted from barns...is this the only line he used..or did you just skip over the others?
2)..."according to their deed" "according to their deed" "according to their deed" "according to their deed" You like one line. So...what did barns say "deeds" are as used in this passage? ...you seemed to have missed this part
3)..does barns say anywhere in his notes that deeds is not what saves you?
4)...for the 5th time..(still no reply)...what about romans 3..and many other chapters in romans that i posted?

Start playing the music..and hand bob his tap shoes. The dancing is about to begin again.

 

If all of you could possibly quit haggling about 'calvinism' and 'armenianism' and just preach the Word in its fullness with the revealed doctrines we would all win! Actually though, if you do that you will be preaching the doctrines of Calvinism, as it is the whole doctrinal truth of the Bible!! Blessings!!

 

Lets take this nice and slow James...maybe you can follow.

1)...in all the verse posted from barns...his focus is to TRY to IGNORE the fact that the REWARD for obedience in real world of converted Christians - IS eternal life. He tries INSTEAD to argue that NOTHING of the kind is possible.

2)... AND YET when he gets to this one text HE CAN't HELP but ADMIT - CONFESS - in fact that the Gospel benefit of ETERNAL LIFE IS what Christ is proclaiming here to those that REALLY choose to obey rather than rebell against God.

The SIGNIFICANCE of that is that we have a hostile witness CONFESSING to the truth though he has tried in almost all preceeding verses to DENY what he must now CONFESS.

Your pretending not to notice how devastating this is to your case - is "typical" but is not misleading/obfuscating or misdirecting enough to detract from the blatant obvious point here.

Get it? Yet?

In Christ,

Bob

 

To the contrary Barnes admits that their deeds must be real genuine from the heart obedience and not rebellion.

Notice in the above "The GREAT PRINCIPLE" of the GOOD NEWS (Gospel) is that God WILL reward ETERNAL LIFE to those who "seek it in this manner".

Did you miss that?

Are you reading the quote at all?

I don't blame you for wanting to flee Romans 2 and Romans 6 and Romans 8 and ...

These chapters do not fit with your "other" Gospel. But Paul says in Romans 2 "According to My Gospel" thus disabusing all who reject the Gospel in that chapter.

And so I like to point that out.

And "yes" this fits PERFECTLY with HIS point in Romans 3!!

"Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

Christ points HIS followers to the same point "IF you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14. God always points believers to obedience RATHER than rebellion.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hey BobRyan

I see you never tire in twisting God's Word to your self-righteous system of death.

Paul's establishment of the Law comes AFTER God's declaration that by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.

Did you miss this Bob? If you only pick and choose a few here and there, then anything is likely. You must use CONTEXT. Your Rom 2 blather is revealed to be a passage violated by contextual redefinitions.

Rom 3:19 shows that all will be condemned by self-righteousness. Yet this is what you wish to cling to. Thus, when you cast aside Christ's righteousness for your own self-righteousness, you unwittingly sponsor death.

Paul's endorsement of the Law must also be seen in CONTEXT. It comes after the delcaration of the righteousness of God which is by faith (3:22). It comes after yet another declaration that justification is by faith without the deeds of the law (3:28). Christ's righteousness satisfies the righteous demands of the Law and hence it is established as a means to provide light to our justified walk.

When one ignores CONTEXT, then even BobRyan's deceptive drivel has an appearance of logic. Self-righteousness leads to death and despair. If Bob is right, we all perish. Thank God for Christ and His righteousness!

Lloyd

 

Hey Lloyd -

Another quoteless review of Romans 2 on your part??

The point of perfectionism is AVOIDED in the Romans 2 text as it STARTS with the context of the CALL TO REPENTANCE. (See Romans 2:4)

Romans 2 explicitly deals with the subject of GOSPEL JUSTIFICATION and GOSPEL judgment (see vs 11-16) and is in perfect harmony with Christ's own views on the SAME subject in Matt 7.

It is in PERFECT harmony with the Romans 3 point which focuses on the NEED for repentance because obviously ALL have sinned!

See? It ALL works out perfectly! CONTEXT Lloyd! Embrace it instead of simply abusing the term!

You need to embrace CONTEXT instead of snippet dodging the text that you claim to know something about in terms of "context".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hi Bob...

Man faces sin on all fronts. Not only does his sin nature pull him into evil ways and away from Gods holy path, but His goodness makes him sin as well. I’ll get to that later. 1st...the evil that lives inside of us.

In Romans 8:6-9 Paul gives detail of our spiritual deadness.

6) For the mind of the flesh is death and the mind of the Spirit is life and peace; 7) because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God, for it does not submit to God's law, for it cannot. 8) And those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9) And you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Romans 3

10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands, no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one." 13 "Their throat is an open grave, they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips." 14 "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood, 16 in their paths are ruin and misery, 17 and the way of peace they do not know." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

This view of man is him in his “Sin Nature”. We just can not stop sinning no matter what we try. Paul had this sin nature too...as he said...

Romans 7:15 - I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.

As a matter of fact, we are all like this.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This is the state of mans flesh...his sin nature. I will not go into how bad this sin nature is and place my Calvinist slant on things. This is not the point of this post. The point comes later. Right now...lets just say man has a evil heart that makes him WANT to sin and he does sin

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On the other hand..we have God. God is Holy..set apart from sin and man in his sin nature. Sin is a path away from God...and means God could never be next to sin. God and sin do not, nor can not mix. Adam took that path away from God, and this is when Mankind fell and now has this sin nature. All that God is..is holy and none is like Him.

Psalms 77:13 - Thy way, O God, is holy. What god is great like our God?

We hear so much about Gods love and Gods love is indeed very great. But notice where Gods nature rest. God is rooted in holyness..ON Righteousness and being JUST From this..comes love and his faithfulness. Many want to start with Gods love and go forward. Yet we need to start with his holiness 1st...and move to His love. Starting with Gods holiness 1st, we see His love is based in holiness.


Psalms 89:
6 For who in the skies can be compared to the LORD? Who among the heavenly beings is like the LORD, 7 a God feared in the council of the holy ones, great and terrible above all that are round about him? 8 O LORD God of hosts, who is mighty as thou art, O LORD, with thy faithfulness round about thee? 9 Thou dost rule the raging of the sea; when its waves rise, thou stillest them. 10 Thou didst crush Rahab like a carcass, thou didst scatter thy enemies with thy mighty arm. 11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine; the world and all that is in it, thou hast founded them. 12 The north and the south, thou hast created them; Tabor and Hermon joyously praise thy name. 13 Thou hast a mighty arm; strong is thy hand, high thy right hand. 14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation of thy throne; steadfast love and faithfulness go before thee.

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Being then that Man is pulled to evil, where as God is all holy, these 2 do not mix. Man would need to be without guilt to be with God...without sin. If we sin..in anyway shape or form, God can not have his holy nature around us for God is holy..set apart from sin. Yet ALL men sin..as we have seen. The unsaved and the believer sin. The believer does not sin as much, or that is how it should be, yet the fact is, he does sin. Even if you go from before you were saved sinning each hour, to after you were saved sinning only one time every other month, both are still sins that Gods holy nature can not be next too. So how is it that the Holy Spirit Lives in us? Stay with me..and we will see.

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Notice also the picture of this path away from God called sin. If we stand in the middle of the worlds way and Gods way we can not go both ways. The worlds ways is AWAY from God. this is not the "price is right " TV show, where you have 3 or for doors to choose from. If you are not following God, you are in sin. Man can not serve 2 masters.
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It is in all of us to look at good deeds and actions as goodness..and or the right way. Good deeds do not help us at all. Sins come both from evil ways and good works.


1 John 2:16 - For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world.

Sins can be place under 2 major headings. Lust and pride. All sins rooted in lust can be said to be evil ways. Wanting things other then God is the same as taking that path away from God. This wanting is lusting. Lusting takes us away from God, for God is no longer God to us. This is very easy to see, and i’m sure all would agree. Notice this...the lusting is a focus on US, and not God. We lust for what WE want. A path away from Gods will.

Some sins of pride can be rooted in evil also. Often times the little fish we grab becomes much bigger in our story, for our pride wants us to make others think we are a great fisherman. We lie sometimes, in pride, to cover mistakes we did. Not mistakes of sin, just mess-ups that we do not want others to know about, for it makes us look like fools. Our pride drives us into sin. Notice again...pride is a focus on self...not God.

But what are the sins of good works? Good works always bring pride, which is a sin. Now before we get started..i have to say..not all pride is sin. Its the pride placed in good deeds we have done, goodness we have shown to others, the good actions we have done for God that is sin. Pride in good works looks at how much good WE have done.

If I build i good dog house I want others to see the good work I have done. I show it to me wife and if my wife tells me that is the best dog house she has ever seen..this makes me fell good. Yes...it is a good dog house...i must be a good builder i may say. I show it to a friend. he tells me it is a good dog house too. Now i’m sure i’m a good builder. Pride has now set-camp in my life. At this point it will be very easy for me to start down that path of sin..carrying my pride with me.

Good works AWAYS leads to pride...we just can’t help it. We all have some form of pride in us. back to the dog house...if I show it to my 2nd friend and he laughs and says...”that is a very bad dog house”...again my pride will set in to fight with him...for it was a good dog house that i built. It is MY GOOD WORKS brings with it pride...ALWAYS. You can not get around it. If you do good, you feel good about yourself for doing good. If its a good dog house or a bad dog house, it was my good work that leads to pride, the pride of sin, as we saw above.

What if it really is a bad dog house that i built and I know it before any one else does? This too can lead to the sin of pride. If I look at this dog house and think, i’m to ashamed to let any one see this bad dog house. This is covering our mistakes so that others will think better of us. We do not want anyone to think we are a bad builder. This is pride in action.

Yet, if we were to know it was a bad dog house and I go around saying, i can’t build good dog house i must be stupid or something, this only pulls the focus on us again. We did bad and want others to feel sorry for us, so we tell others how bad a builder we are. Again pride in action.

It seems like just about anything we do in actions, places sin nearer to us to take hold of. Pride is just waiting on us and if it does not get us..our lust for things will.

Like wise...going to church is good and should be done. If i go to to church every time the doors are open, this is even better. If the good work of going to church is what drives you to go, then you will look at others that only comes on sunday morning and say...now see...i am better..for i go more then they. This is pride..for it looks at us and what we do. Pride is sin, even in good deeds. If any one every got the chance to hear the late Jake Hyles speak, one think you would do on leaving his “talk”. You would think of Jack Hyles, and not so much of God. Jack only talked about all the things he did for God,
I (Jack) won 1,000,000 people to God.
I (Jack) preached 2,000,000 times.
I (Jack) have the largest Sunday school in the world.
I (Jack) started a college...with my name on it.
I (Jack) did this...
I (Jack) did that...
I (Jack) is what this nation needs to hear..(yes..he really said this)

All of his stories were about him. He hardly ever read from the Bible. Most of the time he read one verse and TOLD his listeners to close their Bible, for HE was about to preach. Even when he tried to show how lowly he was, he lefted up Jack

I (Jack) don't even own a car....(must be godly..he done have a car)
I (Jack) never buy clothes for myself...(yes indeed...he is GREAT)

Jack Hyles is only one man that I have focused on. It is easy to do this to some people for they proclaim their own goodness more then others. Yet each one of us has this same sin nature. Each one of us wants to let others know how good we really are. Jack did this in a big way, but you and I also do it to some degree. Some do not proclaim it as much as Jack did, yet let these same people paint the church hallway and not have anyone say “thanks Joe..well done” and boy will that “pride of good works” pop up inside of them.

I’m no better then Jack Hyles. I have pride in my own life as well. You do too.

so...

Deeds viewed as Evil
Does this help in our salvation? NO

Deeds viewed as Good
Does this help in our salvation? NO

NO Deeds
To do nothing..does this help in our salvation? NO


Man is guilty of sin, and all that he does is sin more. God is holy and can not be part of sin. There is no hope for man. What is man to do? NOTHING..there is nothing he can do for it all leads to sin. BUT...God can. This is where Gods grace comes in.

It is the WORK of God that covers sins and makes us holy...not our works. It is Gods WORKS that makes us right. God can now live in us. But wait..we still sin. Yes, God paid for all our sins, those from yesterday and those of tomorrow.

Lets look back in Romans 3 again..

22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction;
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Notice this..the only way we become righteousness so that we can even be around God is in BELIEVEING...not BEHAVING. Believeing..or I like the word “trusting” in Jesus to SAVE us, or “deliver” us from the road of damnation. This trust is know that our works are worthless and we NEED Jesus blood to cover our every sin. This is not saying Jesus is ABLE to do it...it is saying He is our only hope and when we say we believe/trust in Him, we are saying we have all our eggs in His basket...knowing we CANNOT do it...nor can we HELP...nor do we know anyone that can help .

Salvation is ALL about God.


23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
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Justified...made “just as if we never sinned”...or made righteous before God...BY HIS...(the His is Christ)..grace as a gift...(a gift cost us nothing so no work will help us get it).....through redemption...( Christ blood paid for it all. We can not add works to this...it is DONE. Paid in full)


25 whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; 26 it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On the principle of works? No, but on the principle of faith.
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this is to plain to miss. WORKS????????? NO!!!!!!! faith????? yes


28 For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
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justified apart from works


Now you may think, maybe we are not saved by our works, but works keeps us saved. Thank God this is not true. Remember this...all of our sins...before we were saved and after we were saved....are paid for in full. When Christ Paid for your sins you were not even around to start your sinning. If he paid for those sins before your were saved, he also paid for sins of tomorrow. If you are trusting in your works, you are not fully trusting in God and this means you are not RIGHT with God. Just as it is in salvation, our trust needs to be fully in Him to keep us. This is faith in God to keep us.

Romans 14...

23......whatsoever is not of faith, is SIN.


But what are we to do with good works? If they do not count for anything, why not just do evil? Well, if you are unsaved, you may as well just do evil, for doing good helps you. On the other hand the believer is TOLD to do the will of God. However this too can be sin. More on this later.

After salvation we have a “new man”...”a new path we travel”.

As a believer our good works to stay inside the law changes to love for Christ. You see God wants us to follow Him because we love Him, not because of fear of the Law. If we love something we do it anyway..no matter if its under the law, or free from the law. In the OT the chosen followed God because of the Law. But this following did not save them. It was only those that lived in faith..(read all of Hebrews)..that were saved. Works didn’t help back then, and it does not help now. Our relationship with God is a love relationship. He choose us because he loved us. He is the Groom, we are His Bride. God is Our loving Father, we are his children. We both love each other. Our works are not because we must, but because we love Him.

This is the believe that the Book of James talks about. If you say you have faith...I better see action SHOWING that you do love God.

This is what Barns said Romans 2 is like. I happen to agree with him. Romans 2 looks at the actions of the believer...those that really love God show it in the deeds they do. Notice at the end of the chapter how Paul says this action comes from the heart. Again...works does not save us...but the deeds of a believer that is in LOVE with God will show. These are the ones that Paul tells us has a home with their love one in heaven.

So.......I go to church because I love HIM...and should not see myself as better then those that do not go as much. I tell others of Christ...for i LOVE HIM. I read the Bible...for I can not wait to hear more from Him. I give time and money...not because i must...not to get blessings.....but because I LOVE HIM.

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I’ll get back to this later this week. I'm very busy these days.


In Christ...James

 

Hi Jauthor;
I don't know where you got this but it not from the bible;

Many men who are not saved obey the Law the Pharasee's did at least outwardly. The law we have today such as thou shalt not kill steal and so forth are observed by millions yet Your Bible clearly says they can't do it. I wonder is that a reformed bible if so you should toss it cause it lies to you.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike

 

Many men who are not saved obey the Law the Pharasee's did at least outwardly. The law we have today such as thou shalt not kill steal and so forth are observed by millions yet Your Bible clearly says they can't do it. I wonder is that a reformed bible if so you should toss it cause it lies to you.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]Mike,

Would you mind posting Romans 8:6-7 from your Bible?

Thanks,

whatever