Tell me something God did not do or allow.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by J.D., Apr 4, 2006.

  1. J.D.

    J.D.
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    Can any of you name anything that has ever happened or will happen that God has not either done Himself or allowed to be done?
     
  2. Calvibaptist

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    No. Boy, this is going to be a short thread! [​IMG]
     
  3. TaterTot

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    well no. He may not have "done" it himself (like a car wreck) but He "allows" things to happen. Part of His sovereignty.
     
  4. rjprince

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    JD,

    What is the point of this thread? I assume you are driving at something?
     
  5. whatever

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    Here's my guess. Most people would say that a person who could have prevented something bad, but did not, is culpable for that bad. Most people would not say that about God, though, which is an apparent inconsistency.
     
  6. J.D.

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    Yes, I'm driving at something. My intended audience on this is arminians.

    Let me ask the question in a different way.

    When Satan came into the garden, he had to have been there either because God put him there, or because God allow him to be there, right?

    So let's say God allowed him to be there. There had to be a purpose for that, right? Either God planned for him to be there or else the devil ruined God's plan. And if the devel ruined God's plan, how can God be omnipotent?

    Now look at this passage:

    Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    If God either does, or allows. everything that happens, how is it that the devil was able to take away the word from the hearts of people that God was trying to save? If God allowed him to take it, then why did he allow him to take it? Or is God just too weak to prevent the devil from taking his word away?
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
     
  8. Petrel

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    That's kind of cryptic. Can you explain what you mean?
     
  9. Bluefalcon

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    He didn't make a rock bigger than he could lift up.
    He didn't allow a sinner to be born more sinful than he could save.

    Shenmede shenmede ("and so on and so forth").
     
  10. J.D.

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    Who is the target of this comment and what do you mean by it?
     
  11. J.D.

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    Are you talking to BroBob or me or someone else?
     
  12. J.D.

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    Man, you're brilliant. I'm stumped!!
     
  13. Petrel

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    Are you talking to BroBob or me or someone else? </font>[/QUOTE]I was talking to Brother Bob, but certainly not meaning to ignore you. :D
     
  14. J.D.

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    Are you talking to BroBob or me or someone else? </font>[/QUOTE]I was talking to Brother Bob, but certainly not meaning to ignore you. :D </font>[/QUOTE]Right, I don't know what brobob is gettin at either.
     
  15. Brother Bob

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    It is the only unforgiven sin. To say that God hath an unclean Spirit, there is no forgivness.I am sorry if you thought that was directed at any of you. After thinking about the OP though, I guess it is allowed, just not forgiven.

    [ April 04, 2006, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]
     
  16. Timtoolman

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    Yes, I'm driving at something. My intended audience on this is arminians.

    Let me ask the question in a different way.

    When Satan came into the garden, he had to have been there either because God put him there, or because God allow him to be there, right?

    So let's say God allowed him to be there. There had to be a purpose for that, right? Either God planned for him to be there or else the devil ruined God's plan. And if the devel ruined God's plan, how can God be omnipotent?

    Now look at this passage:

    Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    If God either does, or allows. everything that happens, how is it that the devil was able to take away the word from the hearts of people that God was trying to save? If God allowed him to take it, then why did he allow him to take it? Or is God just too weak to prevent the devil from taking his word away?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Well first off a calvinist would declare God not sovereign. If God planted a seed and started a work that person is already saved or regenerated according to calvinist. So now they have another problem. A person has lost their salvation.
    Or how can someone have the word in their hearts and maybe believe if they are totally unable. They can't understand it. They can't respond too it.
    In the calvinist world this seems very perplexing. I would say tuck those verses away and try again.
    I can explain it perfectly by free will (although I am not arminian) and my non calvinist beliefs. But how do calvinist make those verses compatable with calvin's teachings?!
     
  17. J.D.

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    Thanks brobob, you had me nervous there for a while! [​IMG]
     
  18. J.D.

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    Yes, I'm driving at something. My intended audience on this is arminians.

    Let me ask the question in a different way.

    When Satan came into the garden, he had to have been there either because God put him there, or because God allow him to be there, right?

    So let's say God allowed him to be there. There had to be a purpose for that, right? Either God planned for him to be there or else the devil ruined God's plan. And if the devel ruined God's plan, how can God be omnipotent?

    Now look at this passage:

    Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    If God either does, or allows. everything that happens, how is it that the devil was able to take away the word from the hearts of people that God was trying to save? If God allowed him to take it, then why did he allow him to take it? Or is God just too weak to prevent the devil from taking his word away?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Well first off a calvinist would declare God not sovereign. If God planted a seed and started a work that person is already saved or regenerated according to calvinist. So now they have another problem. A person has lost their salvation.
    Or how can someone have the word in their hearts and maybe believe if they are totally unable. They can't understand it. They can't respond too it.
    In the calvinist world this seems very perplexing. I would say tuck those verses away and try again.
    I can explain it perfectly by free will (although I am not arminian) and my non calvinist beliefs. But how do calvinist make those verses compatable with calvin's teachings?!
    </font>[/QUOTE]Tim, you bring up some good questions, but I don't think your reply includes an answer to my questions. Can you relate your reply to the OP and my clarification?
     
  19. Timtoolman

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    You have God telling them not to eat of the tree. You have satan telling them to do it. What would be the most logical answer in this situtation? Did Satan make eve eat, force her? Did God strike them dead or step in front of eve to stop her? I would say God allowed man to practice free will here. Then I see God taking all of this and making it good.
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    When God made "good" it also created "evil", for the opposite of doing good is to do evil and God made man subject to vanity. He could of made him perfect but God made him subject to vanity, but not willingly. In other words he made him so he could sin but would rather he did not. I hope I made this plain. Seems to me when God made man this way that evil was present and evil is satan.
     

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