Tell Others That Jesus Died For Them ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, Apr 3, 2006.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I still don't get the logic , or rather the lack thereof which maintains that we Christians ,especially ministers , are to tell folks that Christ died for them .

    That notion is what I held to for years without giving it much thought or analysis . But after coming to the biblical stance of Christ dying specifically for His people -- I cannot tell people a lie . We need to keep it biblical .

    Let's see . To say Christ died for you is the same as Christ atoned for your sins , you have been reconciled with Him . But that is not scriptural . Christ died in the place of -- for His own only . The epistles were written to believers -- His elect ones . For the sake of the elect He accomplished so great a salvation . The names of the elect only are written in the Lamb's Book of Life . Christ laid down for the benefit of the sheep -- no others . It was the Church alone which Christ shed His blood for .

    In Isaiah 53:11 which is speaking of Christ and His sin sacrifice it says that after the suffering of His soul He was satisfied . His cross-work was completed and Jesus said " It is finished ." There were no unaccounted for people . His atonement was full and complete .He bore the iniquities of all that He designed to justify .

    He didn't die for any in Hell or going there . Their sins were not atoned for .They have no reconciliation . Jesus didn't waste a single drop of blood . His death was not in vain . It achieved all that it was intended for .

    Only redeemed ones receive redemption . The obvious must be stated .
     
  2. standingfirminChrist

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    If that is the case, you don't even know if you are going to enter His kingdom. You are wasting every word you make in saying you love Him. You

    Again, your logic puts man in the position of a puppet and God in the position of some child playing games with that puppet. Allowing hundreds to truly serve Him, in worship, in praise, in prayers, just to be cast into a lake of fire.

    I am sorry, but my God is more loving than that.
     
  3. Tom Butler

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    I agree that we should not say to anybody, Christ died for you. I think we can say, Christ died for sinners just just like you.

    SFIC:
    I understand the puppet part, but the rest I am too dense to figure out. Would you explain?

    Tom B
     
  4. standingfirminChrist

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    By the Calvinistic logic, man even if he spends his lifetime serving God to the letter, is still not assured of entering heaven because God has already chosen who His elect are and no matter if man serves Him fully, that man may still not be one who Christ died for.

    Hogwash!

    My Bible tells me that Christ died for the sins of the whole world and that whosoever will may drink of the water of life freely. Man has a choice, he is not a puppet.
     
  5. here now

    here now
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    Calvinists believe that all Christians who are saved, are the elect.
    The P in TULIP stands for perseverance of the saints, this would be the elect...this would be all true Christians.

    [ April 03, 2006, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: here now ]
     
  6. J.D.

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    Calvinists believe that all Christians who are saved, are the elect. </font>[/QUOTE]Herenow, Standfirm is a wonderful man, but don't waste your time trying to interact with him on calvinism, he's not interested in an exchange of opinions. He just likes to get on his soap box and preach down to us. He also uses non-theological words we can't understand like "hogwash".
     
  7. here now

    here now
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    Calvinists believe that all Christians who are saved, are the elect. </font>[/QUOTE]Herenow, Standfirm is a wonderful man, but don't waste your time trying to interact with him on calvinism, he's not interested in an exchange of opinions. He just likes to get on his soap box and preach down to us. He also uses non-theological words we can't understand like "hogwash". </font>[/QUOTE]I know.
    But his statement above is just sooo ridiculous.
     
  8. James_Newman

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    Calvinism is just about the most useless doctrine that I ever came across. All it does is engender strife, and cause people to doubt whether it is even worthwhile to go preach the gospel. It doesn't help anyone to live a godly life, it doesn't cause anyone to repent of sin, I would like to know if it can be used to line bird cages or something similar. I understand where hogwash might come in handy, but Calvinism I got no use for.
     
  9. J.D.

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    I suppose you're not interested in having a conversation either. You know it all, do you?
     
  10. James_Newman

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    Of course I don't know it all, why don't somebody show me how the 5-pointy tulip will make me a better Christian.
     
  11. billreber

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    John 3:16 says:

    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

    What part of "whosoever believes in Him" eliminates ANYONE from the possibility of salvation? Or do our Calvinist brothers and sisters eliminate this verse from their Bibles?

    Or maybe this verse is just a plot from the Deceiver to make people THINK God is good to "whosoever believes in Him" in the "world" that "God so loved"!

    Bill
     
  12. billreber

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    Another comment:

    If people did not need to tell others about the love of Jesus, why did Jesus COMMAND us to go into all the world (Acts 1:8)? Why did Jesus COMMAND us to make disciples (Matthew 28:19-20)? Logic tells me that if we were not NEEDED to tell about Jesus, He would not have told us to do so. WE are God's mouth on this earth!

    Bill
     
  13. J.D.

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    Looks like the freewillies had a convention this weekend.
     
  14. J.D.

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    BTW I would like to go on record as saying that I am grateful that God has chosen me to be His puppet/robot. Who's puppet/robot are you?
     
  15. Calvibaptist

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    If you really want to know, which I doubt, try reading a little Spurgeon, Ryle, Edwards, or any of the Puritans, who all held rather tightly onto their 5-pointy tulip and very thoroughly explained how it would make you a better Christian.
     
  16. Calvibaptist

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    Bill, you obviously have not read a lot of the threads on this board because we have discussed this verse ad infinitum. But, here goes:

    Calvinists love this verse just as much as anyone else. But, firstly, understand the the word "whosoever" is not in the Greek. The literal translation is "all the ones believing on Him." What that means is all the ones who are in the group known as believing ones have everlasting life.

    Secondly, all this verse does is give the criteria for recieving eternal life - that is believing. It says absolutely nothing about who that option is open to. It doesn't say that every one has the opportunity to believe. It also doesn't say that believing is limited to the elect. It just doesn't say.

    Thirdly, as we have shown over and over and over, the word "world" has many meanings depending on the context. Sometimes it means every single person alive; sometimes it means the physical planet; sometimes it means the evil system that sets itself up against God; sometimes it means all unbelievers; sometimes it means every nation under heaven; sometimes it means Gentiles as well as Jews. Since Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews and they all believed that salvation was only available to Abraham's offspring, it seems more natural to read this as Jesus saying that God loves Gentiles as well as Jews (the world) and gave His Son that anyone out of those groups who believes will have everlasting life.
     
  17. James_Newman

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    Isn't there a Cliffs Notes or something? You couldn't just give an example or something, could you? What would be the most convincing reason that truly holding Calvinism to be true would cause me to love the Lord and my neighbor better?

    You could say something like, 'well knowing that you were ordained to eternal life would make you grateful and then you would want to serve God with all your might', and I might say 'well knowing that I am saved because Jesus died for my sins would make me grateful and then I would want to serve God with all my might, and you can't know you're ordained to eternal life while I can know that Jesus died for sinners.'
     
  18. Calvibaptist

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    James, I tell you what. I'll just say what God said.

    1 Corinthians 1:26-31 - For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

    TULIP as describe in the Bible humbles us before Almighty God. Free will exalts the man because it was the man that made the right choice. All I can tell you is that this is what the Scripture says. If you don't like it, your problem is not with me or JD or Rippon or John Calvin, it is with God.
     
  19. Pastor KevinR

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    All are called, yet few are chosen. We'll NEVER fully understand this from either side, because both ends of the spectrum makes sense and seems silly at the same time (certain elements). On one hand for instance I believe in the Soveriegn grace of Christ, i.e. we're saved w/o any works on our own, yet He died for the entire world as John 3:16 clearly teaches, that is Jesus clearly teaches. In Spurgeon's sermon "The Sinner Must Choose Christ", the text being Rev 22:17, he said, "According to this and many other texts of Scripture where man is addressed as a being having a will, it appears clear enough that men are not saved by compulsion. When man receives the grace of Christ, he does not receive it against his will." (emphasis added)
    your thoughts?
     
  20. J.D.

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    Pastor KevinR: Spurgeon did not believe that Christ died for every person. Do you agree with him?
     

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