Temple of God (II. Thes. 2:4)

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Hawaiiski, Sep 30, 2007.

  1. Hawaiiski

    Hawaiiski
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    From my understanding of scripture, the temple in II. Thes. 2:4 will be the future rebuilt Jewish temple during Dan.'s 70th wk. where animal sacrifices will occur. If so, why is it referred to as the "temple of God"?
     
  2. Ed Edwards

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    It is built by the Anti-messiah, not by Messiah Yeshua ben
    Yoseph of Nazareth (often called 'Jesus').
     
  3. LeBuick

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    I agree, look at the previous verse to see who is being spoken about;

    2Th 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    Edit to add... Does verse 4 look familiar?

    Isa 14:12 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
     
    #3 LeBuick, Sep 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2007
  4. Ed Edwards

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    More reminds me of this scripture about the
    Anti-messiah:

    Dan 11:36-38 (KJV1611 Edition):
    And the king shall doe according to his will,
    and he shall exalt himselfe, and magnifie himselfe
    aboue euery god
    , and shall speake marueilous things
    against the God of gods
    ,
    & shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished:
    for that that is determined, shall be done.
    37 Neither shall hee regard the god of his fathers,
    nor the desire of women, nor regard any god:
    for he shall magnifie himselfe aboue all
    .
    38 But in his estate shall he honour
    the god of forces: and a God whome his fathers knew not,
    shall hee honour with gold, and siluer,
    and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
     
  5. Hawaiiski

    Hawaiiski
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    I know it's not built by Jesus Christ. I stated it was during Dan.'s 70th wk., not the mill. kingdom. The Antichrist is mentioned in the verse. This still doesn't answer why it's called the "temple of God."
     
  6. Ed Edwards

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    The Ungodly people who build will call it
    "The Temple of God".
     
  7. ReformedBaptist

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    I disagree. The temple of God is the Church. The Man of Sin, Antichrist, sets himself in the Christian Church and makes himself out to be God in every respect: As the Son, the Holy Spirit, and the Father. He can do this by offical titles and authority:

    1. The Son = Head of the Church
    2. The Holy Spirit = Vicar of Christ
    3. The Father = Being called Holy Father.

    This Man of Sin, the mystery of iniquitym, was already at work in the days of the apostles. When that which restrained was removed, then he should appear. The ancients as well as reformers have always understood the restraining influence to be pagan Rome. When pagan Rome fell, then Antichrist would appear---and did.
     
  8. Jkdbuck76

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    Go on. I'm listening..... Pagan Rome restrains the AC? Tell me more.
     
  9. ReformedBaptist

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    The Apostle tells us that there was something withholding or hindering the appearance of the Man of Sin.

    "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. " 2 Thess 2:6-7

    There was a "what" and a "who" (he) that "letteth" or restains. That which restrains is both a what and a who. The question then is, "What is the what and who is the he?" And perhaps, "Why doesn't Paul just come out and say it?

    Acts 17 shows us that the brethren suffered persecution on a political charge "Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus." Acts 17:7

    If we contemplate this situation, a letter naming the Roman Empire and Caesar would have reinforced the persecution. The Apostle tells the believers they knew what is was that restrained. What is it that they knew?

    I think the most reasonable answer has to be Rome. This was also the view of Tertullian and Jerome. So this view is not without warrant. There was to first come an apostacy, or falling away, in the Christian church before the Antichrist would be revealed. This seals the appearance of Antichrist in the church. The apostasy is not Jewish, but Christian. If Antichrist is something other than what appears in the Church what does that have to do with Christian apostasy?

    The apostle also told the Thessolonians that the "mystery of iniquity already doth work." The spirit was already at work in those days and many antichrists had gone out into the world. It would be culminated in the Man of Sin AFTER that which restrained was taken out of the way.

    How could the Man of Sin rise to political and religous power with Rome in the way? He could not.

    History bears record that Constantine removed the seat of power from Rome to Constantiople. The way was now paved for Antichrist. When the Roman Empire was broken up, the papacy filled the void.

    Where was Antichrist to appear? In the temple of God, the Church. And he was to show himself to be God, and exalt himself above all that is called God.

    To date any who visit the popes must address him as "His Holiness" which only rightly belongs to God. The papacy takes for itself the following, "The Supreme Pontiff, in virtue of his office, possesses infallible teaching authority when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful...he proclaims with a definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held as such." (Code of Canon Law)

    Who alone possessess infallible teaching authority? It is God alone.

    Catechism #937 says, "The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, 'supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls." How is this NOT exalting himself above all that is called God? The pope has made himself supereme pastor over all the souls on earth.
     
  10. TCGreek

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    RB and JKDBuck76, Are you guys both using Bunyan avatars, just different hairdo?:laugh:
     
  11. Allan

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    I disagree, and by extension with many of the Reformers.

    This is NOT speaking of the Church since it it will be UNBELIEVING Jews (at that time) who will build the Temple to worship God and who they ASSUME is the Messiah. Therefore they will call it that which they always have - The Temple of God. But they will see it is NOT God nor the Messiah who will enthrone himself. And ABANDON the Temple and it's sacrifices for the TRUE and CHRIST who is their suffiency of salvation and redemption.

    Remember whom it is about and what it states previously in the chapter.

    The Reformers just as the Catholic Church had not seen a literal Israel in 1500 years and saw no reason to assume it would ever come back because they postulated we as believers are now Israel since they did not forsee the Nation of Israel EVER being reformed again. Thus the early Reformers took with them the Catholic view of Israel and the Church (from Augustine) and modified it to some degree but did not do away with it because it was pivitol to many of their views.
    WHich, guess what, is the same reason many of us hold to OUR view regarding prophetic things to come :)
     
  12. webdog

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    Amen, Allan!
     
  13. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Brother Allan -- Preach it! :thumbs:
     
  14. TCGreek

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    Here's a question I am looking for an answer to: What does Paul mean by the lawless one is already at work in AD 50/51?
     
  15. Allan

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    It doesn't say "the lawless [one] is already at work".
    See for yourself:
    Where did you get 'lawless [one]" from? Just curious.


    EDITTED IN --->> Also if you will not that ONLY when the restrainer is TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY (removed) THEN (vs 8) will the Wicked One be REVEALED. But remember it will ONLY happen when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way will the Anti-Christ be REVEALED. To claim knowledge of who the anti-christ is is to go against scripture. Until the Spirit of God be removed, we can guess till the cows come home but we will never know if we are right until the Spirit of God is removed as says the scripture.
     
    #15 Allan, Oct 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2007
  16. TCGreek

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    1. A weak paraphrase on my part.

    "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way"
    2 Thess 2:7 (ESV)

    2. What is the meaning of this expression then?
     
  17. Allan

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    Well, what does it tell you regarding context?

    Jamison, Brown, and Fausett state it thus:
     
    #17 Allan, Oct 1, 2007
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  18. TCGreek

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    Paul wrote that letter around AD51/52, What would be the significance of "already at work" to his readers in that time?
     
  19. Allan

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    Since it references the 'Mystery' ("that which is for a while hidden" or hidden for a time)
    Paul is (for all intents and purposes) showing Satan is still working in opposition to God and Christ even if it not fully or mastifestly seen (as with Christ before the Resurrection) but he IS still operating.

    But that 'Mystery' WILL BE manifested eventually, but ONLY after the Spirit of God is removed (taken out of the way).
    Remember they lived their lives as if Christ was coming back tomarrow and apparently fully antisipated this. So to see it worded as if it would be soon but not yet, does not preclude God's intent of the text to be soon in accordance with HIS understanding (1 day or a 1000).

    Contextually I see Paul addressing the fact that some beleive that Christ already CAME due to lies told them. Paul is giving them the assurance and understanding that this 'mystery' is still working amoung us and is NOT removed. Christ's Kingdom IS NOT yet fully established because there are yet things not accomplished in Gods plan. Thus removing the Spirit of God from the world, The Man of Sin (Anti-christ) being revealed and ruling in temporal authority over the world, and a people who will willing follow Him in direct opposition to Truth of God has already revealed to them, of which they reject this Truth that could have saved themand it is for THIS cause that they will be/are condemned/damned.
     
    #19 Allan, Oct 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2007
  20. Allan

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    bump bump :wavey:
     

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