1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured ten-reasons-to-not-ask-jesus-into-your-heart-0

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Mar 29, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So, unbelievers believe?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86
    Salvation = regeneration
    weren't we all unbelievers at one time so did you believe as an unbeliever?
     
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes.

    No.
     
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, that is what I said. If a person has to believe before they are saved you have unsaved people with saving faith. Right?
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,203
    Likes Received:
    3,544
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I didn't choose to breathe so that I would have physical life. I breathed because I had been given physical life. Smile
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ah!! That 'non-agenda agenda'. Consistency's the key, eh?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When Jon asked "how his view of divine justice differs from yours" why don't you just answer him? I did and it didn't cause me to lose my salvation or anything! :)
     
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There is nothing, I reiterate...NOTHING in man that causes God to love anyone. He loves those He loves because He loves them. That is what He said about Israel.
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,203
    Likes Received:
    3,544
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The key is that God is just (not that God must be just). That 's the consistency. When we start judging God by what we would consider just, or unjust....well, then we are making a God look suspiciously like our ideal man.

    And God is not unjust when he saves a people out of the world as his particular possession. God is not unjust when he condemns those who reject him. God was not unjust when he sent his Son as a guilt offering for us. God was not unjust when he put on humanity and bore our sins in his flesh.
     
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Man was created and had volition. Once Adam sinned, that volition was became bound to their nature.
     
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's his theology in a nut shell. He is all over the place. He states one thing, then says something else that contradicts his previous statement.
     
  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is where Bro. TC & I disagree. Regeneration leads to salvation. One is quickened, given God-given faith and God-given repentance and this leads to salvation. But I see regeneration leading to salvation and not the same thing. But it's sorta like 'bam bam' quicker than a blinking eye.

    Exactly.

    Nope. How can a non-believer believe?
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,203
    Likes Received:
    3,544
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you not see what I am saying??? There is a difference SG. I edited the post for clarity, but will state again here.

    When the argument gets to the point of discussing whether or not God must "play by the rules" or be "fair" or "just" then we are straying from reality because we are missing the main point. God IS just...PERIOD. That is my view in opposition to the view that God must act in accordance to men's understanding of justice. So for me, anything and everything God does is just because God IS just.

    If you want to offer your view and how it differs, then please do so. Otherwise, I really am not sure why you addressed my question. Typically when someone asks a simple question, like "how is your view of divine justice different from his?" someone replies with an answer instead of beating around the bush...or insulting the questioner.

    Now, if you simply want to continue an agenda of stating I am anti-Reformed simply because we disagree on a few doctrines (the separation of the Father and Son on the Cross, gentiles being under the Law of Moses, and the exact sense to which Christ was punished for our sins....I think that's about it..) then please just write it in a notebook and save it for sometime we meet. But doing it here is trolling.
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And I stated God IS just because He IS just. He can not be unjust.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,203
    Likes Received:
    3,544
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Now...wouldn't "JonC, I agree" have been much easier a response? O O

    What I was getting at (trying to get at) with IT early on was that all sides believes that God acts justly. We all believe that it is impossible for God to be unjust. The difference is that you and I believe that God does so because God is just. Not because he has established a rule that He must now follow (He can't do X because X is unjust...when if God did X then X would be just by definition not of justice but of God).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,817
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The question is not why God should have hated Esau; there are ever so many reasons why He might have done that. The question is why God should have loved Jacob.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,203
    Likes Received:
    3,544
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Amen!!!

    I wonder sometimes why we stumble so much over why God does not save some who reject him instead of kneeling in awe that he saved us. I certainly did not deserve His grace.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with this post, but IT does believe God acts justly because He is just, too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,203
    Likes Received:
    3,544
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't know what IT believes. That is why I was asking.

    (His "rating" indicates otherwise, but I suspect he agrees with us. I just don't make assumptions or take people's word for what a person believes. That would be....unjust ;)).

    I've said before, people need to learn to state plainly (as best they can) what they believe and stop making assumptions. Even people with the same view may have different understandings when you get down to it. We need to stop being afraid of answering questions, stop hiding behind titles of doctrines and "isms" and plainly discuss what we believe. And we need to be able to do so in brotherly love, not insults and attacks.
     
  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In regards to God's justice. Just like us.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...