Texas Baptists calling to end state lotto

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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  2. webdog

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    This kind of news is completely ridiculous and gives believers a bad name. What next, a call to ban trans fats? Moden day pharisees.
     
  3. AresMan

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    First, the Bible is not explicit on gambling, such is only assumed. I would believe that any irresponsible handling of money that is destructive to one's standard of living would be sin. However, Christians should encourage individuals through sound Biblical and economic teaching rather than through legal actions to forbid free market operations.

    Second, NOWHERE does the Bible in the context of New Testament Christianity support the idea of theonomy, such that the duty of a Christian is to affect the laws of a nation so that unregenerate citizens are forced to follow personal morality by proxy. We are ambassadors for Christ; the U.S. is not "the kingdom of God." We make a nation "Christian" by preaching the gospel to individuals and letting God regenerate them through His Word. We do not make a nation "Christian" by interjecting our interpretation of Biblical personal morality into secular legalese so as to point a gun to the head of atheists and tell them to pretend to be quasi-Christians. This kind of garbage needs to stop. When Christians blur the distinction between their responsibilities as the church with their duties toward the state, non-Christians use this stuff as ammunition against Christianity and become emboldened in their passions as martyrs for their cause. Social engineering does not work through legal enforcement, whether led by Christians or non-Christians.

    Pertaining to secular law, we should fight for the protection of life, liberty, and property (compatible with the freedom to practice our faith), then use our freedom to teach our faith freely to others and then moral responsibility in such freedom. [/rant_end]
     
  4. go2church

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    Play, don't play, I'm not sure there is a lot of biblical evidence either way. But in reading the article, those statistics are alarming. Really makes you wonder why the state is marketing something with the intent of profit that they know is impacting the ones who can least afford their type of "entertainment".

    That is saying nothing of the ineffectiveness of lotteries to fund anything without being pilfered and redirected to everywhere but the intended line item of the budget, usually education.

    Politicians just can't seem to keep their grubby little hands out of the cookie jar!
     
  5. freeatlast

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    So Do you believe that as Christians and Baptists this is what God wants us to be doing or does this further alienate the lost? Is this of God or not in your opinion?
     
  6. go2church

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    It fits into the overall mission of the Christian Life Commission, which I have supported for a number of years and will continue to do so. They have been doing this type of thing for a long time and have been outspoken about gambling in general and the lottery in Texas since the idea was first talked about years ago. This is just one of the many things they are involved in; human trafficking, hunger relief, predatory lending, education equality and religious liberty to name just a few. Check out their website:

    http://christianlifecommission.com/08/

    As soon as I mention to people that they are sinners, Jesus is the only way of salvation and if they don't repent they will go to hell, that pretty much sinks the "don't alienate" boat. I don't go looking to be a rear end but neither do I play nice for nice sake if the topic is brought up.

    When you are allowed to have a voice in public policy, wouldn't it be neglectful not to speak up when these policies will bring harm the whole of society? I nor the CLC are looking to establish some type of Christian ruling majority, in fact they have spoken out against such thinking coming from Christians, but it would be irresponsible not to speak up when given an opportunity. Thankfully in this country we have that opportunity.
     
  7. freeatlast

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    [SIZE=+0]Let me say first that I do not play the lottery because I feel it violates the principles of the faith. Also I am all for telling someone about sin, but calling the lottery sin is a stretch in the minds of the lost and convincing someone is even more difficult. It is like saying dancing is a sin or playing cards both which the Baptist once claimed to be sin. [/SIZE]

    The problem with trying to push this onto those outside the faith is that it becomes legalism for them and actually clouds the cause of Christ. In fact it would be legalism even if forced onto the saved. Trying to make some judicial law that even the church does not have as part of its own constitution is hypocrisy. I seriously doubt that there is a single Baptist church in Texas that forbids its members to gamble under threat of discipline. Also I dare say that I seriously question that this is being done because they have such a high regard for the finances of the poor and lost while they drive around in nice cars and own their own homes and have a retirement. If they did I think they would go and sell all they have like the early church did and distribute it.
    To be honest I would rather see them put as much effort in stopping these name it and claim it preachers who rob poor people with false promises of way more then the lottery ever has.
    It is one thing for me to refrain from the lottery, but it is another to tell a lost person they cannot have it as a choice because I am concerned about thier finances. I just think they are doing way more damage then good with this.
     
    #7 freeatlast, Apr 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2012
  8. saturneptune

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    Although WebDog is an Obama supporter with Calvinistic tendencies, we agree on this issue. As Baptists, we are lucky to have 60% attendance on any given Sunday. There are millions upon millions of lost souls, and we are worried about nonsense like this. I do not buy lottery tickets because I feel it is a waste of money, but I will defend anyone's right to do so as long as it does not hurt their family. It is really none of my business what others do. I would never serve in a church with that kind of mindset. My guess the person spearheading the anti lottery drive is a 400 pound gossip.

    Just kidding about the first line.
     
  9. saturneptune

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    I agree with you.
    I do not play the lottery because it is a waste of money.
    I do not dance because I am the world's biggest clutz.
    I do not drink because it is a bad witness to my children, and the pattern of drinking while in the Navy.

    I do not participate in the above activities for those reasons, and not some ignorant, misplaced, holier than thou doctrine that is not Biblical. I have challanged for years, no decades, for the board of deacons before I came one, for any verse from the Bible, written doctrine, creed, or local covenant that addressed these vices. The only answer I could get was "thats the way its always been." Baloney. There used to be a reference to buying alcohol in our local church Constitution.

    I am so sick of church members who never visit, never get out of the pew or enter the church in the first place, never visit the sick, never talk to someone to edify or comfort, never consider helping the pastor in some manner, etc, etc, etc, and all they know to do is gossip about vices. I makes one want to throw up. One thing for sure, over 50% of them have never missed a meal while gossiping.
     
  10. Ed B

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    One more thing that makes Baptists look like pharisaical busy-bodies.

    I haven't bought a lottery ticket in decades and I consider it at best to be a tax on people who are really bad at statistics. But I just don't understand why some of our leadership feels compelled to tell the lost how to live and what they should or shouldn't do. If this issue at hand were clearly sin I would say that it might be rightly addressed as part of discipling the saved, based on good stewardship....maybe.

    If these really are people speaking on behalf of the state organization then someone with authority needs to find something useful and edifying for them to do.
     
  11. go2church

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    I think the issue isn't necessarily lottery in general rather the idea of a state sponsoring a lottery that is known to have a detrimental impact on those citizens that can least afford to be participating. The answer for the CLC and other believers is no they shouldn't therefore they advocate for that position.

    No one is forced to play so it's not like a mandatory tax but is it really a good idea to fund something as important as education with such a scheme? Gambling is such a slippery slope, a lot like alcohol, there isn't a direct biblical injunction not to do it, but both cause so many problems for so many people. Freedom demands we allow people to make poor choices at times but I don't think the state should be encouraging poor choices if they can find another means of funding.
     

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