Texas school discipline

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by freeatlast, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is clear that many parents are failing in their training up of their children.

    AUSTIN — Nearly 60 percent of junior high school and high school students get suspended or expelled, according to a report that tracked about 1 million Texas children over a six-year period....
    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7659053.html
     
  2. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you sure its lack of discipline or could it be "zero tolerance" policies taken to their wildest extreme? From the article, bolding mine:

     
  3. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,897
    Likes Received:
    294
    What specific "zero tolerance" policies are you referring to?
     
  4. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Any and all of them. If we treated adults the way children are treated inside the public schools our prisons would be full and no one would be left on the outside!
     
  5. go2church

    go2church
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    6
    Yeah there is a lot of the zero tolerance nonsense floating around in Texas for sure. Also, there is technically a suspension situation called ISS In School Suspension, where the kid does something is suspended but stays in school. It goes down as a suspension on the kids record, but the kid doesn't miss school, they are with a teacher dedicated to this purpose.

    I didn't look at these numbers, do they break them down or lump them all together?
     
  6. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,897
    Likes Received:
    294
    I'd say your concerns are sheer speculation.

    Not "zero tolerance policies" , such as weapons and drugs.

    BTW, our prisons are full.
     
  7. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,172
    Likes Received:
    369
    I remember a child being suspended for bringing a Lego gun into school. Yes, I'd like to see the actual violations first before I made a judgment.
     
  8. sag38

    sag38
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    Three examples of zero tolerance gone amuck:

    Bring an Advil for a headache = suspension
    Bring even a picture of a gun = suspension
    Defend yourself from an attack = suspension (self defense is not acceptable: sometimes you can't run away and if you don't fight back you could get seriously hurt but zero tolerance doesn't see it that way)
     
  9. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/education/19discipline.html?ref=us
     
  10. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,897
    Likes Received:
    294
    Zero tolerance is sometimes used as a crutch for bad decisions and lack of good judgement.

    But I doubt that zero tolerance violations are the cause of even a plurality of the suspensions.
     
  11. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    LOL, I can go you one better. Or a bunch for that matter, from my local public school in Alabama.

    My daughter wore a skirt to school that I measured before she left the house to be certain it met the code (as I did with all her skirts/shorts). Now, I've been a seamstress for over 30 years so I know how to handle a measuring tape. She was put into to "In school suspension" until I could bring her another set of clothing and even though it was easily proven that her clothing was within the school dress code, we were refused the chance to prove it and I was willing to use their measuring tape. btw, as I walk into the school half a dozen cheerleaders walked by me in clothing that easily seen to be out of dress code. Zero tolerance policy gone wrong because of lack of due process and uneven application of the rules.

    How about another? If a kid is tardy to school they get "silent lunch" which is certainly a good solution to chronic tardiness, BUT those silent lunches are technically considered "in school suspension" and sets a kid up for other more punitive measures if more than three occur during any nine week period. Btw, there is NO ONE to sign in a kid who has a legitimate excuse until 30 minutes after school starts. EVERY child is sent to silent lunch from the minute the bell rings until 30 minutes later. So my chronically unhealthy kids often waited the extra 30 minutes so they could be signed, rather than punished for being symptomatic just as the bell rang. 2 kids, 5 years of high school, probably a 40% tardy rate between them (all excused because of their health), how many classes do you think they interupted, 20 minutes into the day because of this policy? (and the high school admin never got the idea!)

    Here's another. Kid walks into an afterschool band practice carrying a can of soda. Says to a kid, "hey, will you taste this and see if you think it tastes funny?" What the second kid doesn't know is that the can had been emptied and refilled with vodka. Both (and all the others the first tricked into tasting the can) get suspended and threatened with expulsion! and the kid who brought in the alcohol had done so MORE THAN ONCE, but the other kids weren't warned because she has a "right to education privacy while at school".

    In this case, the kids had no idea what they were confessing too, only that they had drunk out of a can the first child handed them. That made them guilty. It didn't matter that they had no clue what they had actually drunk, or that they had "turned in" the other child. Nor were the kids told they didn't have to say or admit anything or that they would be punished if they did! (no miranda warning or anything that told the kids they had rights) Yeah, not the sort of due process I expect in a nation that prides itself on its justice system. Zero tolerance policies gone amok.

    If you tell a child he is a no good worthless criminal, he will prove you right. :(
     
  12. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is ridiculous. The students know the rules and the consequences. They are not, except in a very few instances breaking the rule out of ignorance. Most are simply trying to push the limit and get busted. if the parents had done the job they should have they would not get into trouble. if this was a policy problem then all the student would be busted. This is a parental issue in the lack of proper training.
     
  13. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't try and walk too close to the edge and you will not fall into the cavern.
     
  14. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    LOL to both comments. So it'll be okay the next time a cop stops you for doing 51 in a 50 zone even though you were only actually doing 49? Oh, and you lose your license to drive too. Because that's how it is in a lot of the public schools. If a teacher "thinks" you've broken a rule, you have and you have no recourse and no ability to defend yourself.

    Yeah, I homeschool for a reason. It's amazing how many arbitrary rules I don't have to deal with any longer. :)
     
  15. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0

    I think your choice to home school was the right one.
     
  16. lilyvalley

    lilyvalley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think this is a pretty legalitsic take on the problem. There has to be some grace shown to childnren.
     
  17. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    If your statement was not so sad it would be funny. :tear:
     
  18. lilyvalley

    lilyvalley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you think we shouldn't show grace to children? I don't think I udnerstand. I agree that good parenting is lacking in most cases, but I still think grace has to be a big part of that.
     
  19. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Like I said this is sad. This is why we have the problems with children today since their parents have done exactly what you are suggesting with their children instead of training them up in the way that they should go.
    You seem to be confused about grace. Grace is not without consequences. In our relationship with God He did not just forgive the debt or ignore sin. He put the debt on Another.
    In regards to these children most are either trying to walk as close to the line as they can, step just over it or out right disregarding it all to see if they can get away with their rebellion.
    They know the rules and are seeking to ignore them just like their parents taught them to do.
    One way they were taught is when their parents drive on our HWYS. In a 55 MPH zone they go 52 or 53 or 55. Or they come to a stop sign and do what is called a rolling stop instead of a full stop because no one is around.Or they see the light is turning red and speed up running the red and then complain when they a ticket from a camera. The child learns that rules do not mean what they are stated as being like you are suggesting and when they attend school they think they can live the same way and cry foul when punished. Irresponsible parenting has brought the problems on, not the rules. Now I agree that there has been some very bad over the top discipline done when some child has an infraction and does not know they were breaking it, but those are not the norm and in those cases where it is clear this has happened I agree it should all be dismissed, (but not because of grace, but since they were innocent) but rules need to be followed and irresponsible parents are the mostly the reason that their children get busted at school.
     
  20. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,172
    Likes Received:
    369

Share This Page

Loading...