Thank Calvin for your freedom

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.


Luke, as a Calvinist, you should understand that this country was ordained of God and not John Calvin. I will thank God and Him alone for my freedoms, thank you very much.

 

Luke, I'm not getting sucked into your endless vortex of arguing.

 

Excellent observation. Thanks first and foremost to God, and second to the countless persons who have died to bring and maintain the priviliged religious and other liberties we enjoy.

 

FYI:

Catholicism arrived in what is now the United States during the earliest days of the European colonization of the Americas. The first Catholic missionaries were Spanish, having come following the 1492 arrival of Christopher Columbus in the New World.[2] They established missions in what are now Florida, Georgia, Texas, New Mexico, California, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.[3] French colonization came later, in the early 18th century, with the French establishing missions in the Louisiana Territory districts: New Orleans, St. Louis, Biloxi, Mobile, the Alabamas, Natchez, Yazoo, Natchitoches, Arkansas, Illinois,[4] and Michigan.[5]

 

Luke no one is "discounting" any contribution to this great country, REGARDLESS of their religious heritage. YOU are the one seemingly making it a matter of personal pride.

 

My point, is that a great many people of all "flavors" came to this country under a variety of reasons. All of them have a share in forging this great nation.

 

Luke, I am proud of all my Christian brothers and sisters who endured and settled this land. Their theological heritage is not of primary import to me.

 

Luke, did you also mention the efforts of the Calvinist leaders to give schooling to all. My wife would also like to mention that the stoicism of creed made strong souls of the Scottish Covenanters (her people are Scottish).

 

Several of my friends have asked me at one time or another why I would even spend my time reading or discussing theology with obsessed people on internet boards such as this. And no doubt, if I were to dare speak of this topic it would leave me without defense as to why I would waste any time doing so.
:laugh:

 

Those baptists were not calvinists. They believed in the doctrines of grace, but they were not followers of Calvin. Calvin was not where they derived their doctrine from and certainly not their practice. Why should we thank Calvin for a contribution to the group most responsible for religious freedom when he made no contribution to them.

I'm surprised that someone who rattles on about others being ignorant cannot understand the difference between the system of belief derived from Calvin and the system of belief derived from the bible. They are not synonomous. Sometimes Calvin was right, but there were times he was dead wrong and when people claim historic baptists were Calvinists they leave our forefathers in the faith wide open to the same attacks which are rightfully hurled at Calvin's doctrine. I'm willing to bet those baptists weren't high on Calvin, weren't thanking Calvin when the bill of rights was adopted, and didn't consider themselves his followers.

Again, it was the Baptists who fought the good fight. Other groups would have been happy with a church state. The baptists, who alone had been persecuted by everyone else at various times, knew that such a situation would leave them in persecution yet. Thank God for the baptists, not Calvin.

Finally, this whole thread shows a certain shallowness of thinking. If one believes in election and predestination then people are apt to label that person a Calvinist. That's nonsense. True Calvinists, the ones who agree wholeheartedly with the doctrine and practice advocated by Calvin, will tell you that one cannot be a baptist and a calvinist. Baptists are not Calvnists and they never have been. Baptists in the past and still today held doctrinal beliefs that sometimes agreed with Calvinists, but that doesn't make them Calvinists. A Calvinist is one who follows Calvin. I don't follow Calvin. I follow what the bible teaches. The bible teaches election, predestination, particular redemption, etc. Sometimes Calvin agreed with the bible on those things, sometimes he did not. There were men before, during, and after Calvin who were in total agreement with the bible and were right where Calvin was wrong. It is they who I identify myself with, not Calvin.

 

Let's be honest, Calvin himself had no knowledge of the country (US) which was to come. It was those who followed his teaching and the fact that they were persecuted where they were. They simply looked for a place to "live peaceably". I commend them, not for their theology, but for their courage to set out toward the "unknown"

"Calvinism is a scourge" may be a bit harsh, but remember, there are those whose passion "against" Calvinism, is equally as strong as your passion "for" Calvinism, so you seeking to be mature, spiritually and intellectually should recognize it for what it is.

"Calvinism the driving force behind this great nation" That is a statement of personal position and a great deal anecdotal.