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That which is perfect.

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Elijah, Feb 10, 2004.

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  1. Elijah

    Elijah New Member

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    This is from a discussion we had in church Sunday night.
    1 cor.13:10 "But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away."
    There was a difference in opinion between myself and one of my church members, as to the meaning of this verse. Would like a few opinions from my Baptist board friends as to 'what' or 'Who', "that which is perfect" is speaking of. My opinion = The second coming of Jesus Christ.
    My good friend at churches opinion = The New Testament cannon.
     
    #1 Elijah, Feb 10, 2004
  2. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    Elijah,

    I'd like to offer a third option--the mature, full-grown, church. The word "perfect" does not always mean "without fault", but rather "mature" is a more common NT meaning.

    First the context of the passage speaks of growing up (v.11), which would point us toward that definition.

    Compare the passage with Eph. 4:11-16. They seem parallel to me. As the newborn church matured through the gifts of teaching, etc, it became "perfect", measuring up to the stature of Christ (Eph. 4:13)--thus able to look at Him "face to face" (1 Cor. 13:12).

    So the mature church doesn't need the signs and wonders that were so prevalent in the newborn church.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
    #2 Tim, Feb 11, 2004
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    The Greek makes clear the perameters of what word may be supplied here. The NOUN is not given; it is understood.

    "That" is a demonstrative pronoun, and whatever is understood to be its subject MUST agree in gender.

    If "that _____" were masculine, then it could refer to the Lord or Jesus or hundreds of masculine nouns.

    If "that _____" were feminine, then it could refer to the church, the rapture or hundreds of feminine nouns.

    It is, however "that THING" because it is neuter. So it might refer to hundreds of neuter nouns.

    Biblion is a neuter noun.

    So is it the correct word? Go to the context of the verse.
    He is talking about the Word of God in special prophecies, words of knowledge, miraculous tongues - so the context makes the THING that will be replacing them pretty evident.

    Not 100%. Still open for debate. But I'm satisfied from Greek and context that Paul is talking about the complete canon of Scripture.

    Hope this helps [​IMG]
     
    #3 Dr. Bob, Feb 11, 2004
  4. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc Member

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    Dr Bob:

    Does canon refer to when the scriptures were "canonized"? I was just wondering.
     
    #4 Bethelassoc, Feb 11, 2004
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    He is talking about the Word of God in special prophecies, words of knowledge, miraculous tongues - so the context makes the THING that will be replacing them pretty evident.

    Not 100%. Still open for debate. But I'm satisfied from Greek and context that Paul is talking about the complete canon of Scripture.

    </font>[/QUOTE]Tend to aqree Dr B. Studied this years ago. Not something I could be TOTALLY dogmatic about, but it just makes sense, doesn't it?
     
    #5 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 11, 2004
  6. LRL71

    LRL71 New Member

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    I strongly agree with Dr. Bob's analysis of the Greek from this passage. The Greek word for 'that which is perfect' (KJV) is teleion, which is a diminutive neuter noun. The rendering of this word in the KJV is the better of any known English translation, although Jay P. Green's interlinear Greek NT has 'perfect thing', which is more precise. The use of teleion has some significance, since it cannot refer to any person or event; it is referring to a specific object. The three interpretations of this verse are listed by Dr. Griffin, but the one that interprets this verse to mean the completion of the Biblical canon is the more preferable considering the context. Paul is addressing the imperfection of the various revelatory gifts: tongues, divine knowledge, and prophecy under the superintendence of the Apostles. Paul himself was directly aware of the imperfection of the revelatory gifts, and used the analogy of their imperfection in verses 11-13. Paul used this analogy in order to demonstrate the incompleteness of the revelatory gifts and that the 'perfect thing' would come to replace them.
     
    #6 LRL71, Feb 11, 2004
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