That world in 2 Cor 5:19 !

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by savedbymercy, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    The world here in 2 Cor 5:19 is limited to a world that has been reconciled to God by the Death of Christ while they are yet enemies Rom 5:10, and a world that shall be saved by His Life ! Its a world that God does not charge or impute with sin , trepasses, and so it is also a Righteous World legally before God's Law and Justice, a world that has been made the Righteousness of God 2 Cor 5:21.

    All whom God did not charge with sin in Vs 19, God was Just in doing so, because they were charged to Christ in the stead Vs 21 and in exchange God charged them with His Righteousness, that He accomplished in perfect obedience to God's Law, for by His Obedience they are made Righteous Rom 5:19

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Understand, His Obedience unto death involved their sins demerit being charged to Him, and so that constituted them Righteous ! How many in ignorance quote this verse 2 Cor 5:19 without understanding what it means, and that it is a Righteous World Legally by the Death of Christ free from the Law and Condemnation !
     
  2. savedbymercy

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    More on non imputation !

    The world of 2 Cor 5:19, of whom God does not impute sin or their trespasses unto, this world is a world of Justified sinners, Justified from the guilt and punishment of their sins against God's Law, for according to Rom 4, Non Imputation of our sins is the equivalent to Justification, Rom 4:6-8

    6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

    7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

    8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    That word Righteousness in Vs 6 means:

    I.
    in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God
    A.
    the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain a state approved of God

    B.
    integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting


    II.
    in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    We are justified by the Grace of God, thru faith in the Lord jesus, correct?
     
  4. savedbymercy

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    You quoted my post, then evaded the points I made ? Will you please review them with me to see if you understood them though you may disagree ? Thanks !
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    You seem to be saying that the elect are alreay reconciled back to God, due to the cross, before they place faith in jesus, correct?
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    I am saying what I said, its there before you, yet you refuse to do as i asked you, but thats ok, you dont want to discuss my points ! Let me know when you decide to do as I asked and show me that you at least understood my points with the option of disagreeing with them if you so do !
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    A Righteous world in 2 Cor 5:19 !

    The World in 2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    This world is a world that God imputes Righteousness unto ! Now how do we know this for sure ? Its because scripture interprets scripture in this matter. Now understand something plainly stated of this world, which is that God does not impute sin unto it, which speaks of the Gospel Doctrine of Non Imputation; Now there is another scripture that speaks of Non Imputation and accompanying it is forgiveness of sins Ps 32:1-2

    1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

    2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

    Note: That would imply as well that the World of 2 Cor 5:19 is a forgiven world !

    Now for my main point and subject, this Non Imputation of sin entails automatically the Imputation of Righteousness, this is clear from the fact when Paul quotes David in this matter, he adds with Non Imputation the Imputation of Righteousness as observed here Rom 4:6-8

    6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

    7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

    8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    Hence Paul makes it clear that accompanying Non Imputation of sin is the Imputation of Righteousness without works, which does enhance the blessedness of the One or Ones who have Non Imputation of sin, which would include that Word of 2 Cor 5:19 ! So the World of 2 Cor 5:19 is a Righteous World before God with no sin charged to it !814
     
  8. PreachTony

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    Y1, through several discussions with SBM, he has informed me that people are born saved or born damned, so yes, it would appear his position is that the Elect are already reconciled without having to believe on Jesus Christ. Unless he is wobbly in his position, that definitely fits what he has said in the past.
     
  9. convicted1

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    He believes in 'eternal justification' Brother Tony...
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    A Righteous world in 2 Cor 5:19 ! 2

    If God does not Impute sin to a person or to a world as in the World of 2 Cor 5:19, it is because those sins of theirs has already been by Him,Imputed or Charged to Jesus Christ, instead of to them, and Jesus Christ pays the penalty for those sins of theirs charged to Him. The Penalty of their sins was death as indicated in Rom 6:23, and He as the Gift of God died their death, discharging them from their penalty of sin; and such ones whose debt of death for their sins has been discharged, by the Justice of God they are entitled to Life as proof of the same !

    So each of them are quickened to life by their Last Adam 1 Cor 15:45, and they receive the Light of Life, to no longer walk in darkness, because of Christ Jn 8:12

    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

    Now who is is that shall be following Him ? Its His Sheep, those whom He died for Jn 10:4

    4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    Non Imputation of sins for this World right here ! 2 Cor 5:19

    2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Non Imputation of sins is for this particular world, but it does not apply to every particular individual in the world in General, Its the world in the sense of this blessing of non imputation is not limited to or restricted to ethnic jews, or Abraham's physical and biological descendants, but its inclusive of Spiritual descendants Abraham had given him in all nations, the world Gen 17:5

    5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.738

    Now remember when Paul was writing of the blessedness of Non Imputation here Rom 4:7-8

    And the common conclusion was that of Vs 9

    9 Cometh this blessedness[of non imputation] then upon the circumcision only or the ethnic jew only, or upon the uncircumcision[Gentile] also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

    No, it was not restricted to only some of those of Abraham's physical posterity the jews, but it also belonged to some of the uncircumcised Gentile World also,

    And so when Paul preaching the Word of Reconciliation, which is defined by Non Imputation of sin in 2 Cor 5:19, he emphasizes that God did not just only not impute sin to the elect jews, or the circumcsion, but also He did not impute sin upon the elect Gentiles of the World, restating what he clarified in Rom 4:7-10.

    The Gentiles are said also to be the reconciled world here Rom 11:12,15

    12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

    15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world[As Per 2 Cor 5:19 states], what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

    Also we understand reconciliation here to be actual Salvation, we see that from Vs 11

    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Salvation here is the same as reconciling in Vs 15 ! This also proves that to be reconciled to God per Rom 5:10 is to be in a state of Salvation and Favour while still being God's enemies and in unbelief !

    So the world of 2 Cor 5:19 is the saved World !
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    A World with no sin charged to it !

    2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    The World of 2 Cor 5:19 is a World that has no sin charged to it, God in His Eternal Purpose will not impute their sins unto them, in that His Eternal Purpose was set that He would send His Son into the World, to be made under the Law, to obey it, and to die for it as the Propitiation for their sins 1 Jn 4:9-10

    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

    This sending was predetermined before the foundation, before the World was Created, so then the World never had its sins charged to them, since God had already determined they should be charged to Christ ! This is therefore the World that God Loved in Christ Jn 3:16.

    It was always God's Purpose that the Elect World should Live through Christ, Vs 9

    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    God's stated Purpose here is that we might Live through or because of Him !

    That word through the prep dia means:

    (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

    Also the word that is the conjunction hina, meaning so that, in order that, for the purpose of,(a subordinating conjunction) – for the purpose that (in order that), looking to the aim (intended result) of the verbal idea. 2443 /hína ("for the purpose that")

    That we should Live through Christ, not Adam !

    This Purpose ensured that Believers would go unpunished for their sins and the consequences thereof, hence all in that world of 2 Cor 5:19, were never appointed to wrath as some obviously were 1 Thess 5:9 but that they would obtain and experience Salvation in both time and eternity !
     
  13. jonathan.borland

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    The word KOSMOS has more than one meaning, and it's an exegetical fallacy to impute its meaning in one place to all the other places. I would assume that you read KOSMOS differently in these places of John and Paul than in the other places of John and Paul that you have cited:

    John 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil.

    John 15:18 **“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.

    Rom. 3:6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?
     
  14. savedbymercy

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    jb

    We know that, however you are evading my points made ! Now review with me my points made in the post, articulate them as to you understand them, then we can discuss or debate them ! Thanks !
     
  15. jonathan.borland

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    I read all your posts but don't know what the great point is you're trying to make. To help me understand, why don't you state simply: 1. to what or whom does KOSMOS ("world") refer; 2. when did this reconciliation take place; 3. why does Paul urge his readers to be reconciled. Thanks.
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    jb

    Then there is nothing for you to debate !
     
  17. PreachTony

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    So a fellow poster simply asks you for clarification, and you shrug him off and refuse to debate, casting him as the failure of the debate. Classic. Well done, SBM.
     
  18. savedbymercy

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    Asking for clarification can go on forever, there comes a time when you can at least review with me what I stated, you dont have to agree with it, just prove you understood it, after that, show how and why my points you understood me to make are wrong. You cant debate my points made if you dont understand them logically !
     
  19. PreachTony

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    Yeah, but he's asking you to merely explain how you define a certain word. How you interpret it in one spot versus another. This informs how you interpret scripture, so it's actually a very good question. To pass over it simply because you think "it can go on forever" is kind of weak debating.
     
  20. savedbymercy

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    I am not going to go back and forth with you on this ! Do you want to debate one of the posts in this Thread ?
     

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