The “Old Man” and the Me

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by NetChaplain, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    What does Scripture intend by the use of, “the old man” (Rom. 6:6; Eph. 4:22; Col 3:9)? Is it an entity, such as a person or an angel? Whatever it is, Scripture’s reference to it attributes it as the determining factor of the quality of an individual. What is it within a person that determines their words, thoughts, feelings and actions? Is it not the nature of an individual? It could not be more correct to assume the old man is the original nature of man, which Adam as the progenitor has hereditarily “passed upon all men” (Rom 5:12, 15, 17, 19).

    Whether your view is eradication or existential (continued) concerning the Adamic nature, it cannot affect the receiving or retaining of salvation; but this view does affect the believer’s condition concerning the growth within salvation.

    During the pre-Cross dispensation, man possessed a single nature which Scripture ascribes as “sinful” (Rom. 5:12; 7:13; 1 John 1:8); and now in the post-Cross dispensation the believer has been given an additional nature or “new man,” which Scripture ascribes as “righteousness and true holiness” (Eph. 4:24). Through the Spirit, in conjunction with the new nature and through the Cross-restraint condition (effected by Christ and administered by the Spirit) of the old nature (Rom. 6:6), the Father “conforms” the regenerate “to the image of His Son” (Rom. 8:29)—“from glory to glory” (2 Cor. 3:18).

    Scripture, for its general usage concerning the sinful nature refers to it as “the flesh”; which nature (flesh) is “the carnal mind” and “is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be” (Rom. 8:7). This is that nature which the Holy Spirit opposes within the believer, inasmuch that “the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish” (Gal. 5:17 NKJV). It is also depicted as a dichotomy of natures (old and new man) in Romans Seven, where the new nature is represented as the new “I” (vs. 17, 20), “the inward man” (v. 22) and “the mind” (v. 25); and the old nature represented as “carnal “(v. 14), “flesh” (vs. 18, 25), “evil” (vs. 19, 21).

    Finally, the new nature is also depicted as “His (Christ) seed” (1 John 3:9), which complies with Colossians 3:10: “and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him (Christ) who created him (it—new nature).” It is the one “born again” (believer) in his new nature that cannot sin, but still does sin in his old nature (Rom. 7:25). The “seed” cannot refer to Christ because He did not require regeneration (born again)—being the Regenerator—through the Spirit.

    It has been well said, “the lost need saved and the saved needs delivered”; delivered from the bondage of not knowing and thus, not appropriating the freedom available to the believer; which appropriation can be established in walking “circumspectly” (of self, Satan and society), “not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil” (Eph. 5:15, 16).
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    the Apostle paul tells us, warning us, that IF we once saved continue to wallkas our flesh wants to dictate to us, will result in ruination eventually, and not pleasing to god, but IF we walk in the Sprit, will do the will of God for our lives...

    So appears even after saved by God, we stil have to reckon ourselves as being dead in/thru/by christ to the flesh, or can find ourselves back under it domenion to a degree!

    paul experienced that bondage of the flesh to quote Luther in roamns 7, but praise god he also showed us how to live in/my/thru the Speirt, and NOT fulfill lusts of our flesh!
     
  3. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    I understand what you mean and is what most understand, but I believe walking after the sinful nature means being ruled by it, which describes the condition of the unsaved and not the saved. To walk after the sinful nature or after the Holy Spirit means to make one or the other your choice for the rule of life (Rom 6:12, 14). It's just that the indwelling sin nature can no longer make it your rule of life, because the rule of life for the believer is "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which has made me free from the law of sin and death" (Rom 8:2).

    The believer still sins, but not in the capacity and manner as before when unsaved. The natural or unsaved man sins as a willing subject, not as a "captive" (Rom 7:23) against his will.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    believe paul experienced bondage to the flesh even after saved by god, and that his revelation from god was that freedom was found by yielding to the Sprit and being controlled by him, not his flesh!

    For we still have that Sin principle residing in us, flesh, that wants us to steer away from God!
     
  5. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    You speak of a very significant issue which concerns the definition of bondage to sin and understanding this will determine our maturity in our walk in Christ. This is related to an article I'm about to post.

    I don't believe Paul was indicating bondage to the indwelling sin nature in Romans 7. The unsaved do not undergo such a battle because there is no desire to "delight in God," esp. "after the inward (new) man (v 22). Bondage, or in other words, being under the rule and dominion of sin is one who willfully sins. This is opposite to the regenerate who sins unwillingly.



    Those who mistakenly believe the regenerate does not sin are at a disadvantage concerning the truth.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Chrsitians have been set free from having to be in bondage to the flesh, but can still choose to be in such, denying the fact of being set free!
     
  7. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    What you say my Brother is a common acceptance, which I do not believe is what Scripture teaches, because one who is born again will not desire to sin, though he will sin.

    I believe those who eventually return to a sinful lifestyle evinces they were never truly free (regenerated) of its bondage and were just suppressing it, by a false outward profession, which results from the absence of God's inward working. They were just "saying" they had faith but did not truly have it (Jam 2:18).
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    the bible tells us to reckon ourselves as having died in christ, to be filled and walking in the Spirit, so as NOT to do the lusts of the flesh!

    So IF a saint ignores this, can get "ensnared' by those besitting sins Hebrews wants us to get rid of, in order to run the race better!

    .Christians still do sin, as there is no sinless perfection here and now, for we are still in the flesh, but have the means to live with sin not ruling us, but Christ!
     
    #8 Yeshua1, Mar 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2013

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